X Marks the Scot - An on-line community of kilt wearers.

   X Marks Partners - (Go to the Partners Dedicated Forums )
USA Kilts website Celtic Croft website Celtic Corner website Houston Kiltmakers

User Tag List

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 33
  1. #1
    Join Date
    9th August 16
    Location
    Southern Highlands, New South Wales
    Posts
    150
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Adjustments for ladies' kilts/kilt skirts apron/underapron sides

    Quick newbie question, if that's okay.

    To make a short kilt for my wife, if I wish to observe the rather arbitrary convention that ladies' kilted skirt aprons wrap with the apron edge/fringe to the left rather than the right, is the only change necessary the swapping of buckle/buckle hole sides, or must I make the deep pleat and the inverted pleat on opposite sides too? Apart from making the buckle hole in the second last pleat, wouldnit affect the marking out of the kilt as well? When I wrap my own kilt rift over left, only the buckle side seems relevant.

    What say ye?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    4th August 06
    Location
    rison, arkansas
    Posts
    648
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm sure somebody with way more sewing knowledge than me (doesn't take much for that) will soon chime in but if I'm reversing the opening I'd reverse the construction also.

    I will say unless it bothers her to have the opening on the "wrong" side I'd be tempted to just make it normal except for the desired length.
    Last edited by neo71665; 15th February 17 at 06:53 AM.
    Knowlege is knowing that a tomato is a fruit; Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadbelly View Post
    If people don't like it they can go sit on a thistle.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    25th September 04
    Location
    Victoria, BC, Canada 1123.6536.5321
    Posts
    4,794
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Unless your lady likes the idea of wearing 4 pounds of wool around her waist may I comment that, in general, a man's kilts will often be made quite differently than a ladies Tartan pleated skirt.

    A skirt for a lady will usually be made with lighter fabrics. 10oz if the most common.
    Skirts will usually be made with less fabric. The pleats are usually shallower. Box pleats are quite common to reduce the amount of fabric.
    Tartan skirts will also be made more like other skirts. This means that they usually do not have the internal construction elements found in a man's kilt.

    Externally a skirt can open on the left or the right. This is a personal preference thing.
    The size and shaping of the aprons can be the same as for a man. Again, personal preference. And what looks best on each person. Girls have different shapes than us guys.
    I personally think box pleats are very flattering to the female shape. Box or knife is another personal preference thing.

    A man's kilt is a very complex garment. A ladies Tartan pleated skirt is usually made following the pattern of other skirts.
    Steve Ashton
    www.freedomkilts.com
    Skype (webcam enabled) thewizardofbc
    I wear the kilt because:
    Swish + Swagger = Swoon.

  4. The Following User Says 'Aye' to The Wizard of BC For This Useful Post:

    tpa

  5. #4
    Join Date
    9th August 16
    Location
    Southern Highlands, New South Wales
    Posts
    150
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Wizard of BC View Post
    Unless your lady likes the idea of wearing 4 pounds of wool around her waist may I comment that, in general, a man's kilts will often be made quite differently than a ladies Tartan pleated skirt.

    A skirt for a lady will usually be made with lighter fabrics. 10oz if the most common.
    Skirts will usually be made with less fabric. The pleats are usually shallower. Box pleats are quite common to reduce the amount of fabric.
    Tartan skirts will also be made more like other skirts. This means that they usually do not have the internal construction elements found in a man's kilt.

    Externally a skirt can open on the left or the right. This is a personal preference thing.
    The size and shaping of the aprons can be the same as for a man. Again, personal preference. And what looks best on each person. Girls have different shapes than us guys.
    I personally think box pleats are very flattering to the female shape. Box or knife is another personal preference thing.

    A man's kilt is a very complex garment. A ladies Tartan pleated skirt is usually made following the pattern of other skirts.
    I bought 11Oz fabric (with selvedge) for my daughters but the tartans my wife wanted were not available in that weight, so I got 13Oz for her. She wants a knife pleated skirt as she feels that box pleats make her look fat, accentuating her 27.5"/40" waist/seat ratio. Some of the short ladies' kilted skirts that Howie Nicholsby makes are her guide. I was going to use about 5 yards.

    So in construction, the way the apron sits slightly forward (to make the triangular shape from the front) doesn't matter whether it emerges from a deep pleat or inverted pleat? Is that right?

  6. #5
    Join Date
    25th September 04
    Location
    Victoria, BC, Canada 1123.6536.5321
    Posts
    4,794
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The deep pleat of a kilt serves two functions. It gives a little more fabric behind the apron allowing them to drop between the legs naturally.
    It also allows the sides of the apron to fall correctly. You can usually see a poorly made deep pleat in aprons that gape open at the bottom.

    A Reverse pleat is just another deep pleat on the opposite side where the pleats are in the other direction.

    So yes, if you make the skirt like a kilt you have both deep and reverse pleats. These will be just like their name implies - deeper than a normal pleat. How much deeper you ask? Well, that depends on the kiltmaker, and the layout of the aprons.

    And I'm not sure what you mean by "the apron sits slightly forward". The apron should fall straight down from the top of the kilt in the front. The side edges should fall straight down and be aligned with the pleats.
    Last edited by The Wizard of BC; 15th February 17 at 01:32 PM.
    Steve Ashton
    www.freedomkilts.com
    Skype (webcam enabled) thewizardofbc
    I wear the kilt because:
    Swish + Swagger = Swoon.

  7. The Following User Says 'Aye' to The Wizard of BC For This Useful Post:

    tpa

  8. #6
    Join Date
    4th November 16
    Location
    US
    Posts
    232
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Okay, based on numerous photographss of kilted skirts I've seen, and one in my possession, it would seem typical for the knife pleats to go in the same direction as on a men's kilt. So if the apron opens on the left instead of the right, the reverse pleat is at the edge of the outer apron. As for a deeper pleat on the other end, well, that's harder to discern from photos, and the inner apron edge on the PV mini kilt from Scotweb that I have is no deeper than the other pleats.

    And like Steve said, they tend to be structured much more simply than actual kilts. So with less fabric, pleating to the sett is not typically an option. Here's a kilted skirt (or I suppose a cilted sgert, since it's a Welsh tartan ) that I made based on the above-mentioned mini kilt:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	evansciltreversepleat.jpg 
Views:	28 
Size:	122.3 KB 
ID:	30147 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	evansciltpseudosett.jpg 
Views:	28 
Size:	154.3 KB 
ID:	30148

    You can see the reverse pleat in the first pic. And while at first glance it may appear to be pleated to the sett, note on the apron how the red-striped burgundy band is bordered by the smaller red stripes while the blue-striped one is bordered by the smaller black bands, but it's the other way around on the pleated portion. I also had to add darts to the upper apron, since too much of the sett would've been lost if I'd just tapered the edges naturally; indeed, perhaps the greatest challenge in making kilts for women (or in my case, dolls*) is preserving the pattern on the fell with the more pronounced taper of a typical female form.





    * In case you didn't figure it out already, my username is a portmanteau of "doll" and "Highlander".
    Last edited by Dollander; 15th February 17 at 02:47 PM.

  9. The Following User Says 'Aye' to Dollander For This Useful Post:

    tpa

  10. #7
    Join Date
    9th August 16
    Location
    Southern Highlands, New South Wales
    Posts
    150
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    By "sits slightly forward", I mean that instead of curling around towards the back, a viewer from the front can see the outline of the apron, since the deep pleat opens up slightly especially when moving.

    So from both responses, I gather that the deep pleat and inverted pleat must therefore be on the same side with respect to the apron as they are for a gent's kilt. That is, the entire construction of the kilt must be reversed, rather than just putting the buckle hole and fringe on opposite sides. Is that correct? Or does it not matter if the deep pleat stays on the left (the apron) and the inverted on the right (the underapron).

  11. #8
    Join Date
    4th November 16
    Location
    US
    Posts
    232
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Like I said, the ones I've seen tend to have the reverse pleat on the outer apron...so yes, as if the fringe and buckle hole were reversed but the basic design is otherwise the same. Of course, there's no hard-and-fast rules, and even less so with kilted skirts, so you could do it whichever way you find more aesthetically pleasing. Six in one hand, half a dozen in the other...
    Last edited by Dollander; 15th February 17 at 03:27 PM.

  12. #9
    Join Date
    25th September 04
    Location
    Victoria, BC, Canada 1123.6536.5321
    Posts
    4,794
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It is the apron shaping which keeps the apron edges parallel to the pleats.
    If shaped well the apron edges should drape naturally around the sides of the legs. The apron edges should hang straight down and not gape open.

    On a skirt that opens on the left. There is no left side deep pleat. The underapron is the deep pleat. On the right the apron itself becomes the reverse and it does have a deep pleat.



    Last edited by The Wizard of BC; 15th February 17 at 03:47 PM.
    Steve Ashton
    www.freedomkilts.com
    Skype (webcam enabled) thewizardofbc
    I wear the kilt because:
    Swish + Swagger = Swoon.

  13. The Following User Says 'Aye' to The Wizard of BC For This Useful Post:

    tpa

  14. #10
    Join Date
    3rd June 15
    Location
    Melbourne Australia
    Posts
    395
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Blah to the Tartan Skirt info
    She wants a short kilt.... make it traditionally - make a kilt!

    -The knife pleats are great to swirl around in and show off fabric, fabric, fabric! Swish & Swagger!
    (I like to wear leggings, short or long depending on weather, under my kilts They can be casual or dressed up depending on footwear)
    -Box pleats aren't great for certain figures - be guided by her preferances.
    -Make the apron closing on the right as is traditional - why bother changing what you're used to?
    -Do look into the Kingussie pleat style ... as our waist - hip ratio is often more prounounced it is a helpful method for getting the fell looking nice
    - Barb & Anne both have information on Kingussie & reverse Kingussie amongst their comments.
    - Apron ... I can't help or offer advice as I'm useless at shaping and I've given up. I just use a straight edge.
    - Yes to deep apron pleats... women tend to move and sit a little differently to men and the deep pleats are needed so we're not flashing.

    If you get a chance (and permission) we'd love to see some pictures during fitting & construction?
    I always find it really helpful to see how others work.

  15. The Following 3 Users say 'Aye' to Lady Grey For This Useful Post:


Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.0