Some Belted Plaid/Great Kilt Questions

[bertwert]

First thing is that I'm new here, so hello!
I've been looking at getting myself a belted plaid for while now, but considering the price of good quality 16oz wool is around $90 a yard, it gets expensive. Now I've found some clearance wool from a reputable source that was pretty cheap at $15 a yard, it's described as '12oz Merino Wool' and I was wondering if that would be too light. I would like to use my plaid in a 'traditional way', and go for hikes/short overnight trips, carrying not much more than an average highlander would have carried. So the plaid would be used for sleeping in, would thinner wool have enough insulation quality for a cool night and I've heard wool when wet can insulate just as well or better, so I want it to be fine in a wee bit of rain and keep me warm. The tartan is brighter than I'd like, but it will suffice at that price (Royal Stewart). Maybe I'll just get it anyway, even if it is not perfect, for the cheaper price. Another question - how long would it need to be? I see some places saying 4 will suffice, some saying 5 is a good average, and some people saying get 6 so you know you have enough. I'm not a huge guy, around 34-36" waist and 5'11".*I think 4 is probably good but may get 5 to err on the safe side. Now I also want to get period correct clothing to match, I would get a blue woolen bonnet, and a thick leather belt (around 3 inches?), so some sort of brooch. Shirt and footwear are my biggest questions. The typicall jacobite shirt you see sold at highland stores, is not techincallyy period-correct, but who'd know. Now I wouldn't want a cotton one for hiking, but I found a polyester one at a nice price - so I might get that. The other idea was a simple knee length lenin shirt, I could make one from a bedsheet, I just don't know how well linen persons outside, and when wet etc... Lastly, footwear. A lot of time I will go simple barefoot, but for some hikes that is not an option. I was thinking I could fashion some brogues out of some cowhide? Also with them were they barefoot in the brogues or did they wear any hose? I've also got a dirk I am making out of a file right now and I plan on making a simple leather pouch with a drawstring for a sporran. Any suggestions at all?
Thanks.

[Nomad]

Firstly, welcome to the forum.

As an ex soldier who has spent some nights under the stars I would say that unless the temperature was going to be higher than 15 degrees Celsius and dry I wouldn't want to sleep out overnight under some kilt material, my reasons are below:

The bodies natural temperature drops when sleeping, so you will naturally feel the cold more, especially between 2-4 am.

Highlanders, in fact nearly everyone living in temperate climates over a hundred years ago was much more used to the cold - no central heating for them. Also their diets, when the could afford it, would have tended to be higher in fat and calories, because they needed it to keep warm.

There are much better materials available today, a gortex bag for sleeping in is totally waterproof, small and light and would make using the plaid much more practical , a highlander would have killed for that option.

Merino wool is warmer than sheep, but I doubt it would hold up to the rugged use you plan for it, the normal wool used for kilts is substantially cheaper than merino, so it may be worth looking for an alternative.

If you are determined to use plaid as your only protection for sleeping outside I would go for at least 16 oz and 5m as you would want to have enough to lie on and throw over yourself, thereby forming a bag.

Whatever you go with, good luck, and test it somewhere safe, like the back garden before venturing out into the wilds. I am sure people with much more knowledge than me will be along to offer some good advice.

[bertwert]

Merino wool is warmer than sheep, but I doubt it would hold up to the rugged use you plan for it, the normal wool used for kilts is substantially cheaper than merino, so it may be worth looking for an alternative.

'Normal' kilt wool that is 16oz weight, is all around $90/yd. Even 12oz wool is $60-70. This 12oz Merino wool I found is only $20/yd. If you know any sources of cheaper 16oz wool please let me know

Thanks.

[Steve Ashton]

I'm one of those that does not believe that Scots of old would have used modern kilt fabrics.

I tend to believe that they would have used something more akin to a boiled wool blanket.

We simply do not know for a fact what was used. There is no historical documentation of what a Great kilt was or how it was worn. Everything you see today is re-creation or fantasy.

But - There is good documentation of what is called the Brat and also the Matchcoat.


A Leine and Brat.



A Matchcoat



If it were me I would do what I believe the Scots would have done. Use what is readily available and inexpensive. A bed blanket. The Brat and Matchcoat above are about the size of a double bed blanket.

Heck, even the N. American peoples readily adopted the boiled wool blanket as soon as it became available.



This idea of using what was readily available at the time and not modern fabrics just makes too much sense to me.

[Dollander]

Highlanders, in fact nearly everyone living in temperate climates over a hundred years ago was much more used to the cold - no central heating for them. Also their diets, when the could afford it, would have tended to be higher in fat and calories, because they needed it to keep warm.

There are much better materials available today, a gortex bag for sleeping in is totally waterproof, small and light and would make using the plaid much more practical , a highlander would have killed for that option.

This. So very this.

I think there's a tendency to romanticize both the distant past and the idea of roughing it, of getting back to nature and living off the land the way our distant ancestors did...only to try to do so and realize, this sucks, I'm cold and wet, my feet hurt, what I wouldn't do for a pair of hiking boots and pup tent. And even if the plaid managed to keep you warm and dry on a rainy night, would you then want to have to lay out that wet plaid on the wet, muddy ground and put it back on?

Honestly, I think the great kilt is impractical as a modern garment, and should really be reserved for reenactment and cosplay. Like Nomad said, Highlanders only roughed it because they had no other option. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turned out that the first belted plaids came about because someone who'd spent all they could afford on a decent coat and pair of shoes had no choice but to strap a blanket to themselves to cover the rest, and then those of greater means saw how cool it looked and adopted it.

Though if you're that intent on trying it out, know that there are way cheaper options for 16oz tartan than $90 a yard. You can get Marton Mills' "Jura" weight from Scotweb (see the link above) for $42 a meter, and even the more expensive Lochcarron double-width is only $60. Granted, you'll be paying 30-some bucks for DHL shipping on top of that (I'm assuming your location "Golden" is the town in Colorado and therefore the US, yes?), which I'd highly recommend over it taking several weeks without tracking via Royal Mail, but even that would come out to less than $10 extra per meter if you ordered enough for a great kilt.

[Steve Ashton]

One of our advertisers, Celtic Croft, sell what they call a Great Kilt. Basically a long piece of single width fabric. I think their price would be far less than that quoted.

[Dollander]

One of our advertisers, Celtic Croft, sell what they call a Great Kilt. Basically a long piece of single width fabric. I think their price would be far less than that quoted.

Actually, that's their "Ancient kilt", which is basically a phillabeg with a bit of extra fabric to form a sash...and is about as ancient as Frappucinos, Playstations*, and the George Foreman grill (all released the same year as the movie Braveheart):


Their double-width great kilts start at about $500 for for the 16oz version, whereas you'd be paying about half of that if you bought the fabric from Scotweb and fringed it yourself.




*okay, technically it came out in 1994 in Japan, but the rest of the world had to wait 'til '95.

[derosa]

I assume at the price you're quoting you're looking at wooltartan.com, check out http://wooltartan.com/remnants-2/ which I think is closer to a 16oz fabric. The 90.00 figure seems a little high, look up any common tartans and 45-55 a yard double width is more the norm. Really, 4 yards of any thick wool fabric should do.
My only recommendation for your idea is to carry a plastic tarp; unless its full on raining if you can keep the moisture from soaking up through you'll do fine. Cold is relative, for the last 20 years I've only ever used the same fleece sleeping bag and have only twice froze for the effort, once in the Adirondacks in Oct at a YMCA camp clean up when it hit 28 degrees and once in Cyprus in Aug when the temp plummeted 40 degrees during the night to 70 on an archeological expedition. All other times if the bag was dry I was fine. I suspect I'd find 4 yard of 16oz wool more then warm under most circumstances as long as it's dry and there's no serious temp swings dampness will cause you trouble. Maybe carry one of those pocket foil blankets just in case, they do work.
It can be fun to experiment with some of what roughing it was like, try it in the back yard first and have fun.

[bertwert]

I assume at the price you're quoting you're looking at wooltartan.com, check out http://wooltartan.com/remnants-2/ which I think is closer to a 16oz fabric. The 90.00 figure seems a little high, look up any common tartans and 45-55 a yard double width is more the norm. Really, 4 yards of any thick wool fabric should do.
My only recommendation for your idea is to carry a plastic tarp; unless its full on raining if you can keep the moisture from soaking up through you'll do fine. Cold is relative, for the last 20 years I've only ever used the same fleece sleeping bag and have only twice froze for the effort, once in the Adirondacks in Oct at a YMCA camp clean up when it hit 28 degrees and once in Cyprus in Aug when the temp plummeted 40 degrees during the night to 70 on an archeological expedition. All other times if the bag was dry I was fine. I suspect I'd find 4 yard of 16oz wool more then warm under most circumstances as long as it's dry and there's no serious temp swings dampness will cause you trouble. Maybe carry one of those pocket foil blankets just in case, they do work.
It can be fun to experiment with some of what roughing it was like, try it in the back yard first and have fun.

Well, actually I was looking at the 'discount tartan' instead of the 'remnant tartan' and was planning on the Royal Stewart. Calculting it out, 380g/m is about 12.3oz/yd. So the remnant and discount tartan are the same weight - a mid-weight rather than heavy weight. I would hope 12 is thick enough for insulation, 3/4 the weight of 16oz tartan. Now if I don't like using a great kilt, I was thinking I'd turn it into a small kilt so would 5 yards be better for that? 4 is probably easier to deal with... decisions decisions. I was thinking of using some plastic sheeting, or maybe a bivibag. And of course do it in the backyard first. As you say cold is relative, I've been out in -5 C wearing just my 'normal' highland dress, playing bagpipes. After more thought I think ordering the tartan there will be a better idea, only $80 instead of $200+ elsewhere. Well, I'll try it and see how it goes.

[figheadair]

I'm one of those that does not believe that Scots of old would have used modern kilt fabrics.

I tend to believe that they would have used something more akin to a boiled wool blanket.

We simply do not know for a fact what was used. There is no historical documentation of what a Great kilt was or how it was worn. Everything you see today is re-creation or fantasy.

This idea of using what was readily available at the time and not modern fabrics just makes too much sense to me.

Steve, there is likely to be some truth in what you say. Last year I read the draft of a very interesting paper on Hodden Grey and related mixed wool cloth which was widely worn. Hopefully this will be publically available soon. I’m not sure about ‘boiled wool’ but fulling (waulking) would have had much the same effect of thickening the material. This type of material were what one might called, in tartan terms, plain cloth. It’s likely that such cloth was worn over a linen shirt during the mid-late middle ages through to the 17th century. Tartan appears to have become increasing popular and more widespread across all social ranks from the early 17th century.

In tartan terms I’ve never seen an example of 18th century cloth that is thickened/felted as a result of waulking. It is the case that the majority of surviving specimens would have been associated with the better off and/or used for best so may not be truly representative. Of the surviving specimens I’ve examined there are two types of cloth; fine, hard tartan and the less fine and tightly woven cloth that is thick and would have been more practical for outdoor protective wear.