What happens with a new chief?

[ctbuchanan]

For over 300 years the Buchanan have been without a chief.

During more recent time literally dozens of new Buchanan tartans have been created and registered. Most recently I can think of the Autumn Buchanan and the Blue Buchanan (not the blue dress that the dancers wear but a blazing blue tartan). It seems there is a new one every year or two.

We now have a petition before the Court of the Lord Lyon from a gentleman seeking to become Chief of the name. We should learn by this December the decision of the Court.

My question is this: if he is successful and is named the Chief of the Buchanan Clan and Arms would he then have authority over the creation and naming of any new Buchanan tartans? And what would happen to all of those previously named?

Just curious.

CTB

[Wareyin]

I know that Clan Gunn recently gained a recognized chief after 230 years, but other than that, has a clan recognized a chief after decades or centuries without one? It seems we might be in uncharted waters, here.

I would guess that he could recognize (or not) any tartan he chose, but what could happen to any that he didn't recognize?

[ThistleDown]

The only authority on recognised tartans of a clan is the chief of that clan. To quote the late Duke of Argyll on this matter:

"...the only tartans which I recognize are, firstly, the one you see me and my wife wearing, which goes under various names, such as ordinary Campbell, Ancient Campbell, etc., and all members of our clan who are not specifically identified with [the Houses of Breadalbane, Cawdor [or] Loudoun are entitled to wear it.
Let me get rid, once and for all, of the thought that there is a 'Campbell of Argyll' [tartan]. While it is true that the Sixth Duke [of Argyll - b.1768 - s.1806 - d.1839] introduced a white line to his plain Campbell tartan to differentiate himself from the rest of the Campbells, (he being the chief and entitled to do so), he was the only member of the family so to do and the rest of the family thought he was rather pompous to do it.
Campbell of Breadalbane--fine [to wear].
Campbell of Cawdor--fine.
Campbell of Loudoun--fine.
Campbell of Glenlyon--I have never heard of it.
Campbell of Loch Awe-this is plain ridiculous, as we are all Campbells of Loch Awe originally. - Apart from anything else, I have never heard of a Campbell of Loch Awe tartan, nor do I wish to do so.
THERE IS NO DRESS CAMPBELL [TARTAN]--repeat! repeat! repeat!
There is NO HUNTING CAMPBELL.
There is NO CAMPBELL RED.
There is NO CAMPBELL - SIMPSON.
There are no Campbell cheques, other than commercial ones...
If I feel strongly about anything and would like it inscribed on my tombstone, there might be a few lines such as 'All Campbells with the exception of the three principal septs [the Houses of Breadalbane, Cawdor and Loudoun] should wear plain undifferentiated Campbell for evermore and not get confused by peddlers of this [other] material that comes under all sorts of guises."

[Orvis]

The only authority on recognised tartans of a clan is the chief of that clan. To quote the late Duke of Argyll on this matter:

"...the only tartans which I recognize are, firstly, the one you see me and my wife wearing, which goes under various names, such as ordinary Campbell, Ancient Campbell, etc., and all members of our clan who are not specifically identified with [the Houses of Breadalbane, Cawdor [or] Loudoun are entitled to wear it.
Let me get rid, once and for all, of the thought that there is a 'Campbell of Argyll' [tartan]. While it is true that the Sixth Duke [of Argyll - b.1768 - s.1806 - d.1839] introduced a white line to his plain Campbell tartan to differentiate himself from the rest of the Campbells, (he being the chief and entitled to do so), he was the only member of the family so to do and the rest of the family thought he was rather pompous to do it.
Campbell of Breadalbane--fine [to wear].
Campbell of Cawdor--fine.
Campbell of Loudoun--fine.
Campbell of Glenlyon--I have never heard of it.
Campbell of Loch Awe-this is plain ridiculous, as we are all Campbells of Loch Awe originally. - Apart from anything else, I have never heard of a Campbell of Loch Awe tartan, nor do I wish to do so.
THERE IS NO DRESS CAMPBELL [TARTAN]--repeat! repeat! repeat!
There is NO HUNTING CAMPBELL.
There is NO CAMPBELL RED.
There is NO CAMPBELL - SIMPSON.
There are no Campbell cheques, other than commercial ones...
If I feel strongly about anything and would like it inscribed on my tombstone, there might be a few lines such as 'All Campbells with the exception of the three principal septs [the Houses of Breadalbane, Cawdor and Loudoun] should wear plain undifferentiated Campbell for evermore and not get confused by peddlers of this [other] material that comes under all sorts of guises."

I like MacCailein Mor's directness - there is no doubt about what His Grace wants with regard to Campbell tartan, and he certainly tries to clear the air with regard to any so-called Campbell sett that he does not personally approve! The tartan mills will not like him for this...

[ThistleDown]

Actually, Orvis, it was the 'late' MacCailein Mor who made the statement, so any upset is long past. It is my understanding, however, that Torquil -- the present Duke -- has not differed with his late father's strong opinion.

[Orvis]

Actually, Orvis, it was the 'late' MacCailein Mor who made the statement, so any upset is long past. It is my understanding, however, that Torquil -- the present Duke -- has not differed with his late father's strong opinion.

I stand corrected! Should have read that with more care.

[figheadair]

The only authority on recognised tartans of a clan is the chief of that clan. To quote the late Duke of Argyll on this matter:

"...the only tartans which I recognize are, firstly, the one you see me and my wife wearing, which goes under various names, such as ordinary Campbell, Ancient Campbell, etc., and all members of our clan who are not specifically identified with [the Houses of Breadalbane, Cawdor [or] Loudoun are entitled to wear it.
Let me get rid, once and for all, of the thought that there is a 'Campbell of Argyll' [tartan]. While it is true that the Sixth Duke [of Argyll - b.1768 - s.1806 - d.1839] introduced a white line to his plain Campbell tartan to differentiate himself from the rest of the Campbells, (he being the chief and entitled to do so), he was the only member of the family so to do and the rest of the family thought he was rather pompous to do it.
Campbell of Breadalbane--fine [to wear].
Campbell of Cawdor--fine.
Campbell of Loudoun--fine.
Campbell of Glenlyon--I have never heard of it.
Campbell of Loch Awe-this is plain ridiculous, as we are all Campbells of Loch Awe originally. - Apart from anything else, I have never heard of a Campbell of Loch Awe tartan, nor do I wish to do so.
THERE IS NO DRESS CAMPBELL [TARTAN]--repeat! repeat! repeat!
There is NO HUNTING CAMPBELL.
There is NO CAMPBELL RED.
There is NO CAMPBELL - SIMPSON.
There are no Campbell cheques, other than commercial ones...
If I feel strongly about anything and would like it inscribed on my tombstone, there might be a few lines such as 'All Campbells with the exception of the three principal septs [the Houses of Breadalbane, Cawdor and Loudoun] should wear plain undifferentiated Campbell for evermore and not get confused by peddlers of this [other] material that comes under all sorts of guises."

The trouble with the Duke's, or any other chief's, pronouncement is that they can only state what they recognise should be used by their clansmen. Stating that there is no Dress, Hunting, Campbell-Simpson etc., tartan is factually incorrect and akin to saying that the sun doesn't rise in the morning. Life is far more nuanced.

[cessna152towser]

I know that Clan Gunn recently gained a recognized chief after 230 years, but other than that, has a clan recognized a chief after decades or centuries without one? It seems we might be in uncharted waters, here.

There have been a few Clans who have had a new Chief recognised in recent years after a long gap.
Clan Cunningham had a Chief recognised within the past decade after a gap of more than two hundred years. Two claimants came forward around the same time and the Lord Lyon had to take a decision as to the rightful claimant.
Our Clan Cunningham Chief has made no comment as to what tartans may or may not be worn, or are recognised as "official" tartans of our Clan.
In the case of Cunningham, there are relatively few tartans. Apart from the main Cunningham tartan, there are also dress variations worn by Highland Dancers, and there is a "Hunting Cunningham" tartan which is actually the same as the Nicholson tartan. On the rare occasions when I officiate as a Clan Armiger I would always wear the Clan Cunningham tartan. However outwith official clan events, our Chief would have no say in which tartans I am free to wear and I do indeed have kilts in the tartans of other clans with which I have some family ancestry and also district tartans.

[ThistleDown]

The trouble with the Duke's, or any other chief's, pronouncement is that they can only state what they recognise should be used by their clansmen. Stating that there is no Dress, Hunting, Campbell-Simpson etc., tartan is factually incorrect and akin to saying that the sun doesn't rise in the morning. Life is far more nuanced.

Yes, of course, Peter. The OP's question, however, was about precedents regarding recognition of existing tartans by a chief. Argyll made his statement only in that respect. He said that the Scottish Tartans Authority (remember, this was a few years ago) and Lord Lyon were archivists and historians, but that recognition attached to a name fell only to the chief of that name.