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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillips View Post
    Lots of great info. Curious though as to why those in Scotland tend to stick to just one tartan if the name associated with the tartan only goes back couple hundred years.Why not enjoy others?
    "Why not enjoy others?" Oh, but we do! We enjoy others wearing their particular Clan tartan, whilst we wear ours.
    Last edited by Jock Scot; 21st November 17 at 09:27 PM.
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.


  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by figheadair View Post
    I missed that in the online draft. Their mistake, not mine 🙄. I will ask them to amend it.
    Now corrected

  3. The Following 3 Users say 'Aye' to figheadair For This Useful Post:


  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jock Scot View Post
    "Why not enjoy others?" Oh, but we do! We enjoy others wearing their particular Clan tartan, whilst we wear ours.
    Well struck, Sir!
    Geoff Withnell

    "My comrades, they did never yield, for courage knows no bounds."
    No longer subject to reveille US Marine.

  5. #24
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    Great article.

    You just have to love the 9th comment.

    Tulach Ard

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jock Scot View Post
    We enjoy others wearing their particular Clan tartan, whilst we wear ours.
    But if "our Clan tartan" was invented by a pair of English brothers as part of a deliberate hoax, is it really ours? Is it anyone's other than the Allen brothers? Yes a Clan can adopt it, but on what basis, what provenance?

    If a thousand anthropologists put their stamp of approval on the Piltdown Man the fact that it's a hoax doesn't change one iota.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first white settlers on the Guyandotte

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Richard View Post
    But if "our Clan tartan" was invented by a pair of English brothers as part of a deliberate hoax, is it really ours? Is it anyone's other than the Allen brothers? Yes a Clan can adopt it, but on what basis, what provenance?

    If a thousand anthropologists put their stamp of approval on the Piltdown Man the fact that it's a hoax doesn't change one iota.
    That's a can of worms best left unopened give that a vast majority of what we think of as traditional clan tartans were invented by Wilsons of Bannockburn only a few years before the Vestiarium was published. There are of course a number of notable exceptions that are truly old, by which I mean pre c1782 and the start of the Highland Revival.

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Richard View Post
    But if "our Clan tartan" was invented by a pair of English brothers as part of a deliberate hoax, is it really ours? Is it anyone's other than the Allen brothers? Yes a Clan can adopt it, but on what basis, what provenance?
    If the clan chief adopts it, it is the tartan of that clan regardless of its history, provenance, or any other factor. That should be good enough, shouldn't it? Similarly, if a clan chief today decided to change the official clan tartan to a new design that someone comes up with (however unlikely a scenario that may be), that's his prerogative. It would be just as it was during the rush to find clan tartans back when "tartan frenzy" was happening thanks to Walter Scott.

    At this point in time, knowing the spurious origins of many of these clan tartans as we do, it hasn't really made any difference. The clan chiefs recognize their clan tartans, and that's all that matters. One needn't prove some ancient tartan lineage to make it a legitimate clan tartan.

  9. The Following 4 Users say 'Aye' to Tobus For This Useful Post:


  10. #28
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    22nd October 17
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    I think Tobus is on the right track here. Even if the origins of the tradition are fishy, the fact that clans have used this tartan system for 2 centuries makes it as traditional as anything in the USA and older than many other traditions around the world. It is certainly one of the few things outsiders "know" about highland dress.

    So there's no need to attack it as fake today, although it is certainly correct to note that it was an invented tradition in the tartan revival period. The Victorians, like the Chinese, loved to see "ancient" precedents for any idea, especially to help hide the new-ness of something that really was novel. In the rapidly-changing world of the Industrial Revolution, such efforts to codify and promote newly-developed or discovered traditions gave life a sense of continuity to counter the "future shock" brought on by rapidly-shifting technology, economics, and demographics.

    Perhaps this helps motivate the appreciation many of us feel for such traditions today.

    And of course, every tradition had to be invented at some point. We just usually assume that the origin was lost to the mists of time. With the clan tartan tradition, we know not only when, but often who attached a family to a pattern. Which makes for an interesting window into how random the start of many traditions must have been.

    As a teenager I read Hugh Trevor-Roper's work on the origins of clan tartans and kilts. It bothered me at the time to think it was all "inauthentic." As teens, we are often seeking something older or bigger to help define ourselves. This perceived lack of authenticity put me off wearing the kilt for many years. Finally I decided it was plenty traditional enough by now and I enjoy wearing it today. (I also recognized Trevor-Roper's animus against the Scots, but that's another story.) My kilt is in my mother's tartan, Boyd, which is so "ancient" that it was created in the 1950s, when she was in high school. But I happily wear it nonetheless and will gladly discuss its origins with anyone who is curious.

    Andrew
    Last edited by kingandrew; 31st January 18 at 07:26 AM.

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  12. #29
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    What a fascinating and informative article, thank you so much for sharing!

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  14. #30
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    21st March 17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacKenzie View Post
    Great article.

    You just have to love the 9th comment.

    There are a few peaches in there.
    Descendant of the Gillises and MacDonalds of North Morar.

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