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  1. #11
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    Thumbs up

    Thanks to all for the information.
    Cheers

  2. #12
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    Interesting Picture

    Quote Originally Posted by PIPER IŅAKI View Post
    Hello all.

    I have read some information about the origin of the diced trim in the Glengarry but there's a lot of different theories. Is there any accepted theory about when and why it's wear for the Scott's?
    Why the solo pipers don't wear it?
    Thanks to all.
    A lot of people have said that the dicing shows allegiance to Britain. And I am beginning to believe that, that is why if I ever get another Balmoral, I will buy one with blue dicing, to signify allegiance to Scotland and Scotland only. But I came across an interesting picture, which is below, of Bonnie Prince Charlie wearing a diced bonnet with a white cockade which at the time was a Jacobite symbol. So surely that must mean the dicing is actually a Stewart symbol, but at the same time I can see why people believe the myth about it being a sign of allegiance to Britain.

    Last edited by Steve Ashton; 16th May 18 at 11:31 AM.

  3. #13
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    Thumbs up

    Hello
    Yes, there's is a connection with the Stuart's and the diced trim, also with the just withe trim or withe feather..very Scottish indeed....
    As I know English wear red and white trim in the times of the colonies around 1700...anyway nobody is here to tell something about.....for me it's a personal choice. For me black, red and white looks cool.
    Piping is live

  4. #14
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    I don't believe the dicing on Scottish bonnets was originally indicative of loyalty to anything, and that information to the contrary is probably some of the romantic balderdash that came out of the 19th century (or later).

    Diced bonnets originally appeared in the late 1760's as an embellishment on the bonnets of the Scottish Highland regiments in the British Army. The bonnets of the original Highland regiments (1730s-1740s) were plain blue flat bonnets. The black cockade was worn as an indication of loyalty to the ruling House of Hanover (Jacobites adopted the French white cockade to indicate their loyalty to the House of Stuart). During the 1750's, military Highland flat bonnets were embellished with a red cloth band appliqued around the opening. By the late 1760's, Highland regimental bonnets were undergoing change - they had knitted diced bands (red/green/white) and were stiffer, standing up taller. They were embellished with black ostrich plumes held under the black cockades - regimental badges didn't exist yet. By the 1790's, this style had become popular with those Highland lairds and other civilians who liked to wear Highland bonnets. Regimental dicing styles on feather bonnets began to diverge (red/black/white, red/white, red/black/green) as regimental distinctions. Regimental badges began to be added over the cockade. The bonnet also underwent further metamophosis, with fore-and-aft creases being added to ultimately create the Glengarry style bonnet (as opposed to the Balmoral style).

  5. #15
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    Dicing

    Well, if it was just a romantic notion, why would it be that? Because the 19th century romanticism in Scotland specifically was about Highland warriors. A new idea was coming about that Highlanders were brave, romantic warriors rather than clannish, unruly savages.

    Surely the romanticism about dicing would be something like 'The red/white dicing represents a Scottish warrior's love for Scotland' or something like that.

    Maybe I'm overthinking it.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orvis View Post
    By the late 1760's, Highland regimental bonnets were undergoing change - they had knitted diced bands (red/green/white) and were stiffer, standing up taller. They were embellished with black ostrich plumes held under the black cockades - regimental badges didn't exist yet.
    What you have just said has made me begin to worry. I have a balmoral which is plain, no dicing but it has a black cockade. Is this connected? Or is it just a coincidence? I think I may be walking around with a bonnet which has got a British allegiance symbol.

  7. #17
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    I do wonder when that illustration of Bonnie Prince Charlie was done. (The style of the painting suggests late 19th/early 20th century.)

    It might have been painted a century after he died. It might be purely imaginary.

    I'd wager it wasn't done from life, if so it would be a very famous and valuable painting indeed!
    Last edited by OC Richard; 16th May 18 at 05:20 PM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickHughes123 View Post
    What you have just said has made me begin to worry. I have a balmoral which is plain, no dicing but it has a black cockade. Is this connected? Or is it just a coincidence? I think I may be walking around with a bonnet which has got a British allegiance symbol.
    There is no need to worry. Your balmoral is just what it is, black cap with a black cockade. I have a plain black glengarry with a black cockade. I did not feel the need to get a diced border. I am a military veteran (US Army) and know other veterans that wear a diced glengarry and/or balmoral because they feel the dicing associates them to time served for their country of birth. Other folks don't put that much into the belief system.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackwatch70 View Post
    The only exception in the rule "pipers of all regiments wear plain Glengarries" was 91st Regiment (Argyllshire Highlanders) where the pipers wore feather bonnets (like Black Watch pipers) and diced glengarries until (and in fact even in few years after) amalgamation with 93rd Regiment to form Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders in 1881...

    Attachment 33716

    sorry for quality of picture
    It would be cool to see a better photo!

    Yes the pipers' dress of the pre-1881 Scottish regiments has interesting variety. I'd like to see a book or article devoted to it.

    For example in the 93rd there's an 1825 painting showing a piper wearing the ordinary regimental uniform (laced coatee, and feather bonnet) and an 1853 painting showing the Pipe Major in red doublet (which weren't introduced to the Highland regiments as a whole until 1855) and a plain blue Balmoral with long feather.

    For the 91st I have illustrations in front of me from the 1860s to the 1880s showing diced Glengarry with eagle feather, plain Glengarry with blackcock tail, and feather bonnet. An 1872 photograph shows the feather bonnet, and your photograph there clearly shows diced Glengarries. I'll go with photographs over illustrations every time!
    Last edited by OC Richard; 16th May 18 at 05:19 PM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Richard View Post
    I do wonder when that illustration of Bonnie Prince Charlie was done. (The style of the painting suggests late 19th/early 20th century.)

    It might have been painted a century after he died. It might be purely imaginary.

    I'd wager it wasn't done from life, if so it would be a very famous and valuable painting indeed!
    I agree - that is nothing like any verifiable image of Charles Edward Stuart.


    Anne the Pleater
    I presume to dictate to no man what he shall eat or drink or wherewithal he shall be clothed."
    -- The Hon. Stuart Ruaidri Erskine, The Kilt & How to Wear It, 1901.

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