Box pleats

[kingandrew]

Thank you, Peter. Now I see exactly what you meant. I appreciate you taking the time to elaborate.

Andrew

[HarveyH]

... I have attached a photo of my tartan with pinned pleats, which I´d call a mix of box pleats and knife pleats

I'd recognize those pins anywhere, nice to see you are working with Paul Henry, whose photo I assume this was.

I was very lucky to visit Paul just after he had spent time studying the 1790 MacDuff kilt. It was fascinating to see his pictures and the complete absence of most of the things we worry about today. As Figheadair has explained it was completely random pleats, almost just replicating the gathering on a belted plaid. So all this worrying about which stripe or the sett seems entirely wrong if you are really thinking about the mid eighteenth century.

I suspect whatever we imagine today will be nothing like an original, so either go for random, or do what would certainly have been the case in the 18th Century, and just ask the kilt-maker to make it, with no further instruction, and get what you are given ... that would indeed be authentic!

[Rod Roy]

You caught my eye with "hill walking". Are those hills under 500 meters tall or Alpine heights? I ask because of the air moisture above certain elevations. Concerns I've read among the group is kilt weight. A heavier material will shed moisture quicker and stay warmer longer but you will feel the weight until you get used to it.

I think a box pleat in your material will shed outer water better and dry quicker than the multi-layered box pleat or knife pleat. I also think you will need to press your kilt after each visit to the hills.

I hope some of our bagpipers will jump in to give us observation. They have worn many kilt styles in all sorts of environments.

Regarding your question what I mean when I talk about hill walking... well, I´m just a beginner who´s just started with wee hills, sometimes called a Marilyn, which are just under 150 metres. I love Wester Ross and the Isles, and last time I enjoyed the beautiful Quiraing walk, Trotternish peninsula, Skye. I hope I´ll have the chance to walk a Munro-route one day, and yes, I´d like to have a box pleat kilt which is suitable for such a trip.

[Rod Roy]

I'd recognize those pins anywhere, nice to see you are working with Paul Henry, whose photo I assume this was.

I was very lucky to visit Paul just after he had spent time studying the 1790 MacDuff kilt. It was fascinating to see his pictures and the complete absence of most of the things we worry about today. As Figheadair has explained it was completely random pleats, almost just replicating the gathering on a belted plaid. So all this worrying about which stripe or the sett seems entirely wrong if you are really thinking about the mid eighteenth century.

I suspect whatever we imagine today will be nothing like an original, so either go for random, or do what would certainly have been the case in the 18th Century, and just ask the kilt-maker to make it, with no further instruction, and get what you are given ... that would indeed be authentic!

Well, I understand what you mean. However, as mentioned before, the 1790 MacDuff was a great inspiration, but I would prefer a nice eyecatcher on the pleats, and random pleats won´t be my choice. If the sett is big enough to get nine pleats, I think I´d choose the alternating lines for the pleats. But I´m afraid that won´t work...

[Rod Roy]

In the meantime, I decided to adopt the style of the 1790 MacDuff kilt, so I would choose the regular box pleats, either with alternating lines for the pleats or, alternatively, with the double lines or single line in the centre of the pleats. Still three options. To be honest, I would prefer the alternating lines. I would also like to have nine deep pleats (6,5 to 7,0 cm width). But I´m not sure which option would work best. -- Thoughts?

Thank you in advance.
Rod

[Tobus]

In the meantime, I decided to adopt the style of the 1790 MacDuff kilt, so I would choose the regular box pleats, either with alternating lines for the pleats or, alternatively, with the double lines or single line in the centre of the pleats. Still three options. To be honest, I would prefer the alternating lines. I would also like to have nine deep pleats (6,5 to 7,0 cm width). But I´m not sure which option would work best. -- Thoughts?

Thank you in advance.
Rod

In terms of how it looks overall to everyone else, colour-wise, I don't think it's going to matter whether you choose alternating stripe, or either of the other striping options. Based on your photos above, I can hardly tell any difference even when I'm looking for it.

But as for the number of pleats you'll get with the widths you mentioned, that will all depend on the sett size for your specific tartan, in the cloth you intend to use. Do you know that dimension? The resident kiltmakers here can help you identify the number and width of pleats you'll get, once they know the size of the sett.

[Rod Roy]

In terms of how it looks overall to everyone else, colour-wise, I don't think it's going to matter whether you choose alternating stripe, or either of the other striping options. Based on your photos above, I can hardly tell any difference even when I'm looking for it.

But as for the number of pleats you'll get with the widths you mentioned, that will all depend on the sett size for your specific tartan, in the cloth you intend to use. Do you know that dimension? The resident kiltmakers here can help you identify the number and width of pleats you'll get, once they know the size of the sett.

Unfortunately, I can´t tell the size of the sett. The tartan was sent directly to my kiltmaker. He told me that, with nine pleats, the depth of the box pleats would be 3.0 cm on each edge, and the face of the pleat would be 5.7 - 6.0 cm. But I´d love to have deeper pleats for my kilt. I would be happy with a depth of 4.0 - 4.5 cm on each edge of the pleat.

If that would help to get deeper box pleats, I would reduce the number of pleats from nine to eight ones. No idea if that makes sense. Just a thought.

[Mike S]

I have to say that Heil Hunting is one lovely tartan! It looks good with any of the box pleat options to my eye.

[The Wizard of BC]

Perhaps I can help to understand this box pleat size thing.

If you look at a piece of fabric folded into normal box pleats - To the Stripe - you will be able to see that there are six elements that make up each pleat.

1) From the center of the visible stripe to the edge of the pleat to the left.
2) The left under portion of the fold back to center
3) and the left under portion of the fold going to the center between two pleats
4) From the center of the visible stripe to the edge of the pleat to the right
5) The right under portion of the fold back to center
6) And the right under portion of the fold going o the center between two pleats.



In the above photo you can see that each pleat uses up exactly one Sett of the Tartan pattern. From a yellow stripe to the next yellow stripe.

So the width of each pleat is set by the distance from one yellow stripe to the next yellow stripe.

And there are six elements to a box pleat so the visible portion of the pleat is equal to 2 of the six.

Divide the size of the Sett by 6. Add to together and you have the width of the visible portion of a true box pleat.

Now, this can be cheated a bit.
The edges of the pleats inside the kllt do not always have to meet exactly behind the center of the visible part. If you try to make the visible portion of the pleat wider you may cause the inside folded part (or the depth) of each pleat to be smaller.

Does this help?

[HarveyH]

What Steve has said here is very clear. I realised that you had put up a picture of the proposed kilt pleating with even box pleats shown. (i’ve copied it below)

From that picture the pleating is at the maximum depth it can be, given the sett as shown. As others say you could have a wider pleat on the surface but if you did that the depth of the pleat would have to be less.

The tartan is lovely so why don’t you just go for it. And the alternating lines is very appealing.

Heil Hunting tartan
Pleats with alternating lines #2