Personal flair

[Nathan]

Hypothetically, what would you wear to the CDUSA banquet/ball? Based on the photo of Lord MacDonald at the one in 2014. What would you wear to the dinner photo of Lord MacDonald with the kilted and white tie guests?

In part I'm wondering what the best outfit would be for all black tie occasions? Lord MacDonald seems to like his black balmoral doublet with the argyle hose for a wide range of formal events.

I’ve only ever seen Lord Godfrey Macdonald of Macdonald photographed in two Highland outfits. The bottle green balmoral doublet with Argyll hose for black tie events and a bottle green barrathea Crail for day wear.

For Clan Donald functions he adds a day plaid and bonnet with his day wear. I’ve never seen him in tweed so I’m deducing that he lets the barrathea jacket serve many functions.

Nathan

[FossilHunter]

I’ve only ever seen Lord Godfrey Macdonald of Macdonald photographed in two Highland outfits. The bottle green balmoral doublet with Argyll Jose for black tie events and a bottle green barrathea Crail for day wear.

For Clan Donald functions he adds a day plaid and bonnet with his day wear. I’ve never seen him in tweed so I’m deducing that he lets the barrathea jacket serve many functions.

Nathan

Thanks for the info. I hadn’t realized that his doublet was green.

It sounds as though he probably doesn’t wear the kilt often outside of clan functions. Maybe he just has the two outfits to cover all events (day/evening).

I have seen many photos of him trousered casually at his bed and breakfast.

[Jock Scot]

Hypothetically, what would you wear to the CDUSA banquet/ball? Based on the photo of Lord MacDonald at the one in 2014. What would you wear to the dinner photo of Lord MacDonald with the kilted and white tie guests?

In part I'm wondering what the best outfit would be for all black tie occasions? Lord MacDonald seems to like his black balmoral doublet with the argyle hose for a wide range of formal events.

CDUSA? I am sorry, but I don't know what that alludes to. I think that I understand the USA bit but, CD? Until I understand more fully, I think that it is impossible for me to give best advice.

I don't think it is possible to have and wear a single general purpose "best outfit for all black tie occasions". Some, can be dressed up a fair bit like a Prince Charlie(PC) and some can be dressed down a tad, like Lord MacDonald's velvet doublet. In these cases it isn't what you might choose for any given event, but its is the WHERE and WHY the event is happening that guides ones attire choices, the WHAT must take third place. If you don't understand that and just rely on the WHAT, then the chances of getting one's attire choice awry increases greatly.

I have worn a PC quite happily in my youth and these days, I wear either a black barathea silver buttoned argyll (BBSBA)------ which doubles for formal day attire with drop down tie------, or a rifleman green velvet argyll when dressing for dinner at home or when dressing for dinner when visiting someone's home for dinner.

When I used to venture out to the far more usual formal evening events . For basic black tie events I used to usually wear a BBSBA as a base and then dress it up, with a black three buttoned waistcoat and if really necessary patterned hose. With this attire I would wear my plain black McRostie sporran(personal flair?) and well polished black brogues.

When venturing out to rather smarter events then I wore a rifleman green velvet sheriffmuir jacket and black bow tie and for the far less common white tie event, I would substitute the bow tie for a jabot, when I added a dress sporran, patterned hose and buckled shoes then I could go to white tie events without comment.

However if you really want my opinion for ONE do-it-all outfit that can be dressed up and down, not easy as I have now explained -------but won't do for white tie events, or formal day attire---- is the seemingly much frowned upon on this website, is the really well fitted PC.

[FossilHunter]

CDUSA? I am sorry, but I don't know what that alludes to. I think that I understand the USA bit but, CD? Until I understand more fully, I think that it is impossible for me to give best advice.

Clan Donald USA. I think I mentioned it in my previous posts even if not my last one. They host a banquet every year at their general meeting and that it where the second picture of lord Macdonald comes from. It’s a banquet/tartan ball.

Now I don’t know what the dress code is from an invitation but lord Macdonald is in a doublet and argyle hose and the woman he is talking to is wearing a cocktail dress so I don’t know what to make of the formality of the event except that it’s probably black tie of some level.

I have nothing against PCs. So you think they work for the gamut of black tie? I am not worried about day formal because that is almost unheard of in the US (like morning dress).

[Jock Scot]

Clan Donald USA. I think I mentioned it in my previous posts even if not my last one. They host a banquet every year at their general meeting and that it where the second picture of lord Macdonald comes from. It’s a banquet/tartan ball.

Now I don’t know what the dress code is from an invitation but lord Macdonald is in a doublet and argyle hose and the woman he is talking to is wearing a cocktail dress so I don’t know what to make of the formality of the event except that it’s probably black tie of some level.

I have nothing against PCs. So you think they work for the gamut of black tie? I am not worried about day formal because that is almost unheard of in the US (like morning dress).

Sorry I must have missed the explanation of CDUSA.

Lord MacDonald is the Clan Chief! He is expected to cut a dash! Although he does appear to have moderated his attire some what. Who knows what he was thinking, but I wonder if luggage considerations influenced his attire choices? Or perhaps it was a conscious choice to put his Clansmen at ease by toning down his attire a tad? We shall never know of course, but his attire in the second picture is very effective. Nevertheless, his attire is well ahead of what one would wear at the more normal black tie event.

This is where over-egging ones attire fails, when worn to the normal standard black tie event-----just what does one wear to the smarter black tie event? White tie event? There are no choices left!

I think A PC is about the most versitile black tie outfit. Black oxfords/brogues, plain hose and plain sporran perhaps, for the basic black tie event. A smarter sporran and chain for the slightly smarter do. Patterned hose and a nice dress sporran for something smarter. For the very smart black tie event, then buckled shoes, tartan hose, dress sporran and chain. When you get to that level that will see you through to anything up to, but not including white tie events.

Actually at the last white tie event that I attended, probably twenty years ago now, some------a wee minority---- were happily wearing a PC. Were they invited the following year? I have no idea!

An afterthought.

When we consider white tie equivalent kilt attire, I doubt that many(any?) kilt hire companies will have the attire readily to hand, so one will probably need to employ a tailor to make the attire required. Tartan/velvet jacket, tartan/velvet waistcoat, the tartan jacket and waistcoat both cut on the bias is one choice, a very smart sporran and sporran chain, tartan hose, buckled shoes AND not the place for a cheapo, non traditionally cut kilt, or cut price kilt accoutramants either. Not an exercise for the feint of heart financially speaking then, particularly as most of us will not be wearing all of it on a regular basis.

So in this modern day and age these uncommon events cannot justify or expect that every one should be attired as was usual in the recent past. Or should they? Whilst I am personally reluctant to lower standards at all, as we can see everywhere around the world a slackening of attire standards can decend into a hotch-potch of sloppiness. However, it is time I think, for a modest relaxation of attire expectations at the more uncommon top end of the private social occasions ladder. And I think that is already happening to an extent.

[OC Richard]

Within the context of traditional Highland attire, there is room for a little personal flair. For those who are interested, I’ve created a Pinterest board with some of my favourite outfits.

Thanks so much for your post and that link Nathan!

Your attire helps make the important point that while to one person "personal flair" might mean dying their hair blue, to another person "personal flair" might mean wearing vintage tweed.

[OC Richard]

Personal flair is a very personal addition to ones attire and it is sometimes very difficult to strike the optimum balance...personal flair can be easily overdone...we all have dropped the odd howler with our attire from time to time! Personal flair is like walking on ice, take little steps and testing ones footing...

Thanks for that well-worded summation.

it appears that over-dressing for any given event is a very North American thing.

Certainly this is true of Highland Dress around here. The topic has come up often on these boards, how one might go to an outdoor daytime Highland Games or a morning Church service and see men in Prince Charlies. And many men don't stop with Prince Charlies but add dirks and plaids and numerous pins and badges.

But when it comes to non-Highland Dress locals here are often ludicrously underdressed for events. As a piper I attend more weddings and funerals than most people, and always there's at least one guy wearing board shorts, zorries, and a t-shirt. (Sometimes there's an Aloha Shirt thrown over the t-shirt to make it dressier.)

The underlying factor is probably a general lack of knowledge and/or concern regarding codes of behaviour.

There was a long discussion on another forum about Americans not knowing about/respecting Irish and British customs concerning where one should sit in a pub. Americans were thought of as being rude because they would come into a pub and sit in a seat that the locals knew was so-and-so's seat. There's a common response around here for things like that: "what, is your name on it?" meaning if a seat isn't clearly reserved it's fair game for anyone.

Lord MacDonald is the Clan Chief! He is expected to cut a dash!

Prince Charles is dressed in a higher end kilt attire...and is perfectly acceptable...(ordinary people) that use these pictures as examples of how to dress formally...would most certainly be over-egging the cake!

These jumped out to my eye. It just doesn't go over here, the notion that a certain manner of dressing is OK for members of the aristocracy but not OK for the rest of us.

[Jock Scot]

Thanks for that well-worded summation.



Certainly this is true of Highland Dress around here. The topic has come up often on these boards, how one might go to an outdoor daytime Highland Games or a morning Church service and see men in Prince Charlies. And many men don't stop with Prince Charlies but add dirks and plaids and numerous pins and badges.

But when it comes to non-Highland Dress locals here are often ludicrously underdressed for events. As a piper I attend more weddings and funerals than most people, and always there's at least one guy wearing board shorts, zorries, and a t-shirt. (Sometimes there's an Aloha Shirt thrown over the t-shirt to make it dressier.)

The underlying factor is probably a general lack of knowledge and/or concern regarding codes of behaviour.

There was a long discussion on another forum about Americans not knowing about/respecting Irish and British customs concerning where one should sit in a pub. Americans were thought of as being rude because they would come into a pub and sit in a seat that the locals knew was so-and-so's seat. There's a common response around here for things like that: "what, is your name on it?" meaning if a seat isn't clearly reserved it's fair game for anyone.



These jumped out to my eye. It just doesn't go over here, the notion that a certain manner of dressing is OK for members of the aristocracy but not OK for the rest of us.

I think that you are reading too much into my last statement OCR. As dicussed many times,Prince Charles takes particular effort to dress well but modestly with his day attire. With modest personal flair that most of us would probably not even notice. With more formal Highland attire his choices are well within reasonable boundaries considering the events. He would not wear high end attire for a Burns do at the local pub, for example.

[Tobus]

But when it comes to non-Highland Dress locals here are often ludicrously underdressed for events. As a piper I attend more weddings and funerals than most people, and always there's at least one guy wearing board shorts, zorries, and a t-shirt. (Sometimes there's an Aloha Shirt thrown over the t-shirt to make it dressier.)

I don't even know what board shorts or zorries are, but what you describe is common all over the United States. Underdressing for an event will often brand a person as having "no class", or being "trashy". It is most definitely not a respectable thing to do here in the USA. It happens not only at places like weddings, funerals, and church services, but in the workplace as well. Just last week I had a guy show up to a job interview here at my office wearing shorts and an untucked shirt. I had to tell him bluntly that his unprofessional appearance was an indication that he would not fit in here.

This descent into sartorial mediocrity seems to be an unfortunate side-effect of modern attitudes about lifestyle. There is such a social movement to be non-judgmental about everything that no one feels the need to present themselves decently. They actually get angry when they are judged for being underdressed. Whether it's wearing stained, ripped blue jeans to church or wearing pajamas to the grocery store, people seem to think that society has no right to judge them for wearing what they think is most comfortable all the time.

I know we've had threads lamenting this in the past, and I don't necessarily mean to go there again. But suffice it to say that this probably explains a lot when it comes to Americans wanting to overdress when they want to present themselves positiviely. Being underdressed is most definitely not an asset.

[MacKenzie]

Dead-on, Tobus.