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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdinSteve View Post
    This might help to clarify how Europeans generally use cutlery - https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=us...fari#kpvalbx=1 .
    The video seems to imply that Europeans only eat meat? I have not traveled extensively there, but I'm fairly certain that plates usually contain something in addition to meat. Is the idea that one will eat the meat, and only the meat until it is done, and then have whatever side is on the dish? I realize that noodles may have been uncommon, but I believe that turnips, potatoes, and parsnips at least have been common table fare for centuries.


    Edited to add: According to Wikipedia, Europeans use their knives to shove food that can't be speared onto the back of the fork, with the tines still pointed down. "For other items, such as potatoes, vegetables or rice, the blade of the knife is used to assist or guide placement of the food on the back of the fork.[5] The tines remain pointing down."
    Last edited by Wareyin; 6th January 19 at 10:27 AM.

  2. #42
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    So, Wareyin, you have answered your own puzzle. Everything goes on the back of the fork - meat, veg, gravy.... , generally mixed together. As has been suggested, this may seem inconvenient for rice, peas etc. but, if you do it from childhood, it is not a problem.


    Alan

  3. #43
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    I had to chuckle at the use of the words, "assist or guide placement of the food on the back of the fork". It's more like mashing it on there with the knife when it comes to peas and rice. There comes a point when one just has to flip the fork over and use the knife to help scoop it up, rather than awkwardly struggling to get it on the back of the fork.

  4. The Following 2 Users say 'Aye' to Tobus For This Useful Post:


  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobus View Post
    I had to chuckle at the use of the words, "assist or guide placement of the food on the back of the fork". It's more like mashing it on there with the knife when it comes to peas and rice. There comes a point when one just has to flip the fork over and use the knife to help scoop it up, rather than awkwardly struggling to get it on the back of the fork.
    In “polite company” it would be essential to only guide food onto the back of the fork and flipping it over would be regarded as a faux pas. A lifetime of practice helps to organise the various food elements to achieve this, say a piece of meat topped up with potato then a few peas squashed on top. Similarly with soup, the spoon is filled by moving away across the plate and is quietly sipped, never slurped and the spoon is most definitely not put in the mouth. The last of the soup is taken by tipping the plate away from you and spooned from the far side of the plate. Mind you probably practical in case tipping the plate towards you might accidentally spill all down your front!
    I do remember a movie, possibly OSS (1946) where the American hero was betrayed to the Germans due to eating in the American way.

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  7. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by KD Burke View Post
    I’ve often wondered if the American usage of the term may not have arisen from the pioneers making hunting shirts from old blankets. Thus a plaid(e) became a plaid shirt and with usage, the word came to be associated with the pattern rather than the original item.
    May well be.

    Raised on the west coast of the U.S.A. (by a mother who, coincidentally, was fairly enraptured by Scottish pipe bands), I learn't to identify practically any box-striped pattern as some form of "plaid." Tattersall (mostly in shirts), gingham (mostly in oilcloth table covers), buffalo plaid (usually an overlay on heavy flannel shirts), and Madras (always on lightweight shirts or suiting) were all grouped under the lexical rubric of "plaid."

    In the Pacific NW where I've lurked most of my life, flannel shirts were popularized early by loggers and fishermen who were often Scandinavian. Flannel shirts in this part of the world are practically always some form of "plaid" (alternating colored stripes) but rarely of an identifiable tartan pattern. This is also the region whence arose the Pendleton Mill, specializing in woven woolen plaids, many of which seem to be original to the weaver (and all of which used to be woven in Oregon; it seems they've lately outsourced much of this work to Mexico).

    Plaid shirts are considered either a workman's basic jobsite garment, essential grunge accessory, or hipster affectation, but are rarely freighted with a clear sense of Scottish history. For that matter, neither are our more-or-less native Utilikilts.

    The most confusing example of this universal plaiding might be "Glen plaid," which if I understand correctly seems to be of early 20th century Scottish origin, but which doesn't seem to much resemble tartan. In its defense, it does make an appropriately dull suit for bankers.

    Please note that these are observations from my personal experience only, and do not represent in-depth historical research.

    Cheers,

    Jack
    Ry'n ni yma o hyd, er gwaethaf pawb a phopeth.

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  9. #46
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    Interesting, too, that the Hudson's Bay Company (the oldest extant company in the world) offered 'plaided' shirts for exchange in their fort stores from early years. Usually they were red/black checks, perhaps the forerunner of the loggers/lumbermen's shirts (jack shirts in the high north). They also offered Balmorals, complete with red toories and ribbons for adjustment. HBC blankets were distinctly different from the shirts they offered, although in later years they were sometimes made into shirts.

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  11. #47
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    Interesting how these small cultural terms and practices vary depending on where you grew up. I was born in the 1950's in Eastern Ontario Canada. I was always drilled by my mother to eat with my fork in my left hand, tines down and my knife in my right. She was firm that to take the fork in my right hand with tines up and scoop food into your mouth was the sign of a boor and a glutton.


    We were also always clear that there was a difference between tartan and plaid. Plaid was a simple fun pattern of lines, a tartan was a more sacred pattern associated with a family name.

  12. The Following 4 Users say 'Aye' to Singlemalt For This Useful Post:


  13. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singlemalt View Post
    Interesting how these small cultural terms and practices vary depending on where you grew up. I was born in the 1950's in Eastern Ontario Canada. I was always drilled by my mother to eat with my fork in my left hand, tines down and my knife in my right. She was firm that to take the fork in my right hand with tines up and scoop food into your mouth was the sign of a boor and a glutton.


    We were also always clear that there was a difference between tartan and plaid. Plaid was a simple fun pattern of lines, a tartan was a more sacred pattern associated with a family name.
    I too had the same knife and fork drill. It was a rocky road for a left hander though, but exceptions were never ever even considered.
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

  14. #49
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    Don't even get me started on the Left vs Right hand thing.

    My Grandfather was one of those who would stab me with a fork every time I picked up a implement with my left hand.
    Steve Ashton
    Forum Owner

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