Single-sized (non adjustable) bow ties

**MikePotts** · 14th January 19, 08:13 PM

Steve Ashton wrote:

"But there is nothing that screams "Class" like a guy pulling on the ends of a self tie bow and letting the tie hang free. Women just seem to find it un-resistible. "

I will admit that due to my ineptitude tying my own bow I have worn a 'pre-tied' and replaced it after dinner and billiards with a suitably crumpled untied 'self tie' kept in an inside pocket - yeah, chicks dig it

**FossilHunter** · 15th January 19, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by EdinSteve

I believe that a wing collar shirt would reflect the fashion of the 1920s more closely as it was the type most worn at the time for formal wear. As another has said, the fold down collar was a later fashion adopted by the then Prince of Wales, later the Duke of Windsor for formal wear. This site covers it pretty well - https://vintagedancer.com/1920s/1920...llars-history/ .

The link is interesting in that it mentions Britons in the 20s viewing the turn-down collar with black tie as an American invention (and a negative one at that

).

Funnily enough, I just watched the second episode of the second season of the recent Upstairs Downstairs, "The Love that Pays the Price." The episode features a dinner party, hosted by the Hollands with Ambassador Kennedy, a young John F. Kennedy, and a fictional American tycoon as guests.

Sir Holland and The Duke of Kent wear high collared formal shirts with their dinner jackets.

Sir Holland and Joe Kennedy (who also has a winged collar):

from booktalkandmore.blogspot.com

Duke of Kent:

from curtisbrown.co.uk

The fictional American tycoon, Caspar Landry, wears a turn down collar:

from booktalkandmore.blogspot.com

The young JFK was also wearing a turn down but unfortunately I can't find a pic online.

The episode is supposed to take place in November, 1938.

**Steve Ashton** · 15th January 19, 12:07 PM

Here is my personal self-tie bow.

While it still has the adjuster, when tied it is very obviously not a pre-tied one.

This is where I got it.

https://www.thetiebar.com/product/B386ST

**Taskr** · 15th January 19, 01:06 PM

I have only one neck-sized bowtie, one with the adjuster hidden and the other few the slider as pictured by Steve.

Given Steve's comment in light of the many methods of tying shoelaces, I offer this how-to link for bowties (try as I might I've not mastered that on my shoes, but its great for gift ribbon)

The shirt collar comments are interesting. My wing-tip was worn with military mess kit. More recently, I could not find a good quality wing-tip for the tux. Seems in Western Canada, at least, the style has become fold-down. It is, IMO, a bit more comfortable.

But, back to the tie. The inner hook type makes an adjustable much less noticeable, but the loop device remains. I find a self-tie bow stands out anyway, regardless of the neckband type.

Incidentally, a gentleman would not been seen with a bowtie undone ... not that he can't be a bit of a scoundrel when not in public

**KiltedSergeant** · 15th January 19, 08:54 PM

Oh, and if you do not know how to tie a bow tie, it is the same knot you use to tie your shoes.

Wow! I never knew that Thanks! Now I can buy one. (Even in this modern age of Velcro, I know how to tie my shoes.

)

**kingandrew** · 19th January 19, 07:49 AM

Yes, the bow tie is just like tying your shoes, just around your neck.

I personally like bow ties not only because they add a certain panache to your look, but because they are simpler to deal with. I can tie one without looking in a mirror and I never have to worry about whether it is the right length. I can feel with my fingers when I tie it if it is lopsided and correct that without untying and starting over. And taking it off at the end of the day just requires pulling on one end. Plus, it never falls in my soup or gets caught in any doors or machinery.

As far as 1920s fashions go, I think the wing collar would be much more typical of formal wear at that time. In fact, wing collar shirts were still pretty common with business/lounge suits in the 20s. Buster Keaton, playing a sort of "everyman" character, typically wears a sort of wing collar with a fake tie arrangement in his silent films from that decade.

Andrew

**McCracken140** · 22nd January 19, 07:48 PM

The 'black tie' dress code was really only coming into common use in the 1920s, replacing 'white tie'. As such, in that period, there was less distinction between what could and couldn't be worn as far as what is exclusive to white tie and black tie. For example, stiff evening shirts, although fairly uncommon today, were standard for black tie in those days, and white waistcoats were not uncommon for black tie. Indeed, there is a photo out ther of Hitler in the '30's wearing a black waistcoat in white tie. It was not until much later that turndown collars became "standard" black tie in the UK, but in North America wing collars are still relatively common. I believe it might have something to do with the fact that a tuxedo is the most formal attire the average American has ever hear of, so he is likely to ascribe to it more unique features, such as the wing collar. However, wing collars attached to the shirt rarely if ever have the required height or stiffness to be considered 'elegant evening dress', and since most, unlike myself, would rather not bother with detachable collars, we see that most 'elegant' wearers of black tie resort to turndown collars.

**Macseobang** · 23rd January 19, 02:36 PM

Thanks for the info about the wing collar. I ended up wearing one, but as for the bowtie; I was running late and opted to wear a pre-tied instead of trying to quickly learn to tie my newly purchased self-tie. My outfit was still a big hit at the party with many complements and not a single question about my undergarments.