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13th January 19, 09:35 PM
#1
Single-sized (non adjustable) bow ties
Hello all,
I’m attending an evening function in the coming weeks, and I was thinking I might get a standing collar for my collarless evening shirt and pair it with a black bow tie to wear with my kilt and black shell jacket (with the jacket’s standing collar turned down).
To this end I would require one of the nicer bow ties that come in neck single neck sizes (eg 15.5) rather than have the adjusters at the back, because they would be exposed with a standing or winged collar. From what I have seen, these are only available from British ‘high street’ retailers. Is anyone aware of a place where such a thing could be had at a reasonable price, and particularly in Canada or the US?
“The convents which the fathers had destroyed...the sons, rebuilt…”
—Hereward the Wake, ‘Of the Fens’
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14th January 19, 12:01 AM
#2
What this is called is a "self-tie" bow tie. They are rare but not unknown by any means. I buy mine at a my local tux rental shop. A high end men's shop may also carry them.
Oh, and if you do not know how to tie a bow tie, it is the same knot you use to tie your shoes.
Last edited by Steve Ashton; 14th January 19 at 02:24 AM.
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14th January 19, 12:32 AM
#3
Originally Posted by Steve Ashton
What this is called is a "self-tie" bow tie. They are rare but not unknown by any means. I buy mine at a my local tux rental shop. A high end men's shop may also carry them
Ah, thank you- i has thought that the term ‘self tie’ would simply find me ties that still have the adjusters, but you can tie the knot yourself- but somehow searching ‘self tie bow tie size 15.5’ finds me all kinds of results where ‘black silk bow tie size 15.5’ would not. Thanks lol
“The convents which the fathers had destroyed...the sons, rebuilt…”
—Hereward the Wake, ‘Of the Fens’
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14th January 19, 02:03 AM
#4
I think it's probably worth pointing out that standing collars, or wing-tips as they're called are for white tie events and full collared shirts are the standard for black tie, although this is often confused
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14th January 19, 02:46 AM
#5
Originally Posted by EdinSteve
Never heard that before. Wing collar shirts are perfectly normal with Highlandwear. This may be a convention south of the border perhaps.
Fold down collars for formal(black tie) shirts are the norm in this part of Scotland and have been for decades. Wing collar shirts, rightly or wrongly, are considered to be hire company issue.
" Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.
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14th January 19, 02:48 AM
#6
That is not always true. At least it is not a rule written anywhere.
About the only convention is an older one - The wing collar may or may not be separate but is usually starched very stiff and is usually paired with the stiff placket fronted shirt with studs and not buttons.
Although many today are not stiff. I have even seen a soft wing collar on a pleated front shirt but that was in a tux rental place that all the shirts on display had '70's ruffle fronts and colors like teal.
Today both the wing collar and the stand and fall collar are seen quite often for Tuxedo or Black Tie. Ruffle fronts are long gone and pleated fronts are seen less and less often. Even the older convention of tuxedo shirts using studs is not a strict rule anymore.
But there is nothing that screams "Class" like a guy pulling on the ends of a self tie bow and letting the tie hang free. Women just seem to find it un-resistible.
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14th January 19, 04:10 AM
#7
Originally Posted by EdinSteve
That's interesting. In any case the only dress shirts I own are all wing collar ones, apart from the collarless ones I wear with a jabot. Any black tie function I have been at the majority if not all of those kilted with PCs will have wing collar shirts although if there are any in dinner suits they tend to wear fold down collars. It may be an anglo-saxon thing perhaps.
One could hardly describe the North West Highlands as an Anglo Saxon Stronghold. Without splitting hairs and without being too contentious I hope, we up here regard the wing collar as more of a Lowland Scot thing that we generally regard as being fairly new------since the 1970's perhaps---- to the more general use of kilts(in civilian form) and particularly for formal events. Its is fair to say that the hire companies have gasped this trend with both hands and have (still do) pursued the wing collar look almost exclusively for black tie events and the use of those dreadful ruche ties for day attire.
Up to about that time in my experience, those in the Lowlands that wore tartan at all, it was in trews form and yes, I think the more Southern influence of wearing fold down collars, with black tie and Dinner jackets(tux) with the trews was very much the new trend. I have to say, it is a look that still appeals to my eye.
Last edited by Jock Scot; 14th January 19 at 04:28 AM.
" Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.
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14th January 19, 05:42 AM
#8
I know what you mean about the fitted size vs. adjusters issue.
I think if you contact Beau Ties Ltd, you can get a custom tie made to your specs at a reasonable price. They make them in New England, so quality control and delivery times are good. I have a nice tie from them that was part of a special order for a friend's wedding many years ago (we were not long out of college and so wore matching ties rather than whole groomsmen outfits).
https://www.beautiesltd.com
In the USA, the wing collar formal shirt is pretty commonplace, although the turn-down collar is also quite popular. Proper formal shirts with detachable collars are unusual in the States. It seems that many men have no idea about the niceties of formal wear, since most American men will probably not attend too many black-tie occasions beyond high school prom and their own weddings. If you go to the opera in the US, you will see people at all levels of dress. The same is true of many "formal gala" events. And a look at the red carpet of the Oscars also indicates a wide range of approaches to dressing.
I have read that the turn-down collar formal shirt was popularized by the Duke of Windsor, in the days when he was Prince of Wales. He always dressed well and certainly looked good kilted. So it is interesting to see Jock's insight on how certain collar styles are viewed in Scotland today.
Andrew
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14th January 19, 02:42 PM
#9
Try www.tiedrake.net then click on bow, ties they have a large selection of self tie bow ties to fit every neck size. All their ties are made of silk.
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14th January 19, 04:20 PM
#10
Collar type
I'll reiterate that many adjustable "self-tie" bowties have the adjustment area hidden so it appears continuous around the collar. I just recently purchased one from amazon because I need it by this Friday for a formal work party.
I have a follow up question for anyone interested. I'm debating wearing the bowtie with either a spread collar tux shirt or a wing tip tux shirt, but I'm wondering which is more appropriate. My employer is putting on a formal (but a little late) "holiday" party with a 1920's theme. I will be kilted with a regulation doublet and I'm wondering which of the two collar types may have been more popular in the 1920's. Is the wing tip collar perhaps too formal? I do believe most attendees with be in tuxes.
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