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  1. #1
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    Unhappy white wing collar tuxedo shirt with pleats

    Help!! The regiment that I served with is getting more and more into black tie affairs. No problems until I began looking at pleated wing collar shirts with a Prince Charles jacket and kilt. 1/8", 1/4", 7/16" or 1/2" pleats???? The regiment does not have a dress code for the pleating and was just wondering if there is a code for highland dress?

  2. #2
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    Many guys today are getting away from the pleated front tux shirts.
    Steve Ashton
    Forum Owner

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  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Ashton View Post
    Many guys today are getting away from the pleated front tux shirts.
    Fifteen years ago. And get a lay-down collar too if you're out shopping. Wing-tips cause as many problems as they get compliments.
    Rev'd Father Bill White: Retired Parish Priest & Elementary Headmaster. Lover of God, dogs, most people, joy, tradition, humour & clarity. Legion Padre, theologian, teacher, philosopher, linguist, encourager of hearts & souls & a firm believer in dignity, decency, & duty. A proud Canadian Sinclair.

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  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdinSteve View Post
    Remember that most of any shirt will be hidden by a Prince Charlie waistcoat. Pleated front shirts are a bit of a rarity nowadays along with those with decorated backs so you are best going for a plain shirt. The style of collar is a personal choice but many choose a wing collar with the Prince Charlie.
    Perhaps a current Edinburgh fashion, Steve? Most up here have moved to plain front, lay-down collars with PCs and the like. Admittedly, also a current Highland fashion choice.

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  8. #5
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    The Marcella Shirt with a turn down collar is the standard Mess Kit and Black Tie form worn in the UK. I've never worn a wing-tip collar having never been to an event that was that formal or dined with H M The Queen.

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  10. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by figheadair View Post
    The Marcella Shirt with a turn down collar is the standard Mess Kit and Black Tie form worn in the UK. I've never worn a wing-tip collar having never been to an event that was that formal or dined with H M The Queen.
    I quite agree with the turn down collar style of shirt for Black Tie events. It seems that the wing-tip collar is very much standard kilt hire issue for black tie events. I have worn a wing-tip collar for white tie events though, such as Hunt Balls and the very occasional formal evening event with VIPs South of the Border and where I do not wear the kilt.
    Last edited by Jock Scot; 27th April 19 at 02:38 AM.
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

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  12. #7
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    As a 70-year-old, with extensive experience in both kiltmaking and better-quality menswear ... PLUS a lot of years attending very formal events when I was married to a member of "The Canadian Establishment" ... I agree with Jock, Steve, & Bill.

    "White tie" is very formal and the band of the tie, being white, disappears against the band of a wing collar shirt as it is supposed to. It's also supposed to be hand-tied ... not with hooks & hardware visible. Seeing black, & green, & for GOD'S sake ... PINK ties, with their bands visible ... and with their hardware showing ... is strictly a result of the female-driven wedding industry trying to make men an accessory to the bridal party. A wing collar shirt should ONLY be worn with full white tie which includes a tail-coat, in my (educated) opinion. And the highland equivalent to white tie would be a doublet

    "Black tie" ... believe it or not ... is traditionally SEMI-formal, and calls for a turned down collar. Pleated fronts are really rather old fashioned at the moment. The highland equivalent to black tie would be a Prince Charlie.
    Last edited by Braemar Kiltmaker; 27th April 19 at 04:06 AM.

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  14. #8
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    Smile white wing collar tuxedo shirt

    Gentlemen, please I do hear what you are saying in reference to the pleated shirt. However even my credit card I believe would not support an evening in a Prince Charles and kilt with out a pleated shirt. The shirt is not hard to find I was just wondering about the size of pleat. The Scottish regiment dates back to the 1800's and people want to revive old habits. My understanding is most if not all of the Canadian Scottish Regiments (16 across Canada) only wear C.F. Greens as #1 dress. So for association functions a little of the past for past serving members is not too far out of the way. Again Thank-you

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  16. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdinSteve View Post
    Crieff actually, haven’t been to anything dressy in Edinburgh for many a year. I have noticed that wing collar shirts are becoming harder to find these days though. As I said, and as you have confirmed, the style of collar is very much a personal choice. Where exactly is “up here” by the way?
    Tomatin. I think, as others have said, that wing-tip collars are appropriate for white tie (something I have never personally worn) but not black tie attire. Traditionally. The for-hire outfits want their customers to use only the products they offer, and not something customers may already have.

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  18. #10
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    I don't plan to quote anyone here. But I believe that some may be allowing bias show. It fine to have preferences, everyone does. But to claim a personal preference is the tradition, can mean you don't see a bias.

    OC Richard has kept this board filled with board filled with wonderful photos, and illustrated photos of the past. There is also the fact that we live in a world with an internet. A record of wing collar shirt worn with and for black tie is not hard to find, both in photo/picture/illustration and text. And has existed long enough to not be dismissed as not traditional.

    I will admit my bias, I think a well made wing collar shirt can look fine with black tie. But not traditional? That's not really true. Only the hire shop? Also not true. The 'I've never seen it', 'It's not done', 'Not in my circles', it all boils down to preferences. We all have them, and travel in different places that show them. This is a 'no true Scotsman' fallacy literally. Anyone is free to disagree, and I can respect your individual choice, but this is a preference issue, certainty not one to be codified as tradition vs. non-tradition.

    So to the OP; there is no 'code' for the shirt. If you want a wing collar style, and do not plan to get one with a detachable collar, get one with a very high attached collar. There are a great many resources for formal wear, both black, and white tie, where shirt types are broken down.

    Best of luck at your event. I have been to many formal Regimental events, and a kilted turnout always goes well.

    UBIQUE

    Frank
    Drink to the fame of it -- The Tartan!
    Murdoch Maclean

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