how should my argyll jacket fit?

**vfma78** · 3rd June 19, 11:02 AM

I recently bought and Argyll jacket and vest - Should I be able to button the jacket? I know that your NOT supposed to button it to wear, but I can barely button the one I have - I may need to go up a size and have it tailored? Thoughts and opinions ?

**Father Bill** · 3rd June 19, 11:26 AM

How do the shoulders fit? Can you move your arms freely? Does it "bind" across the back of your shoulder blades?

**Mike S** · 3rd June 19, 11:44 AM

Yes, you should be able to button the jacket. It is intended to fit the shoulders and torso like a suit jacket, but be cut at the bottom to accommodate the sporran.

**Tarheel** · 3rd June 19, 04:10 PM

I have a thought (don't be alarmed), as these things happen from time to time. I had a vest that I wanted to wear with my kilt when I first got one. I gained a bit of a belly and could not button the front. I made a set of extenders using a portion of chain and two buttons for each position. I got the idea from bikers that use leather straps and snaps to widen their vests to accommodate an increasing girth. Maybe, if tailoring seems out of the question, this may solve your problem.

I did think of the questions that Father Bill and Mike had on fitting your torso. Good luck on which ever way you decide.

I found a photo of the vest with the buttons and chain. Now I wonder how got so big in the belly?

**Steve Ashton** · 3rd June 19, 06:58 PM

The stock Argyle jacket from most Scottish based Jacket makers is patterned with a more European fit than Jackets for the N. American market.

It has a bit more taper to the waist. Not quite an Italian cut but the style does not fit the way most Americans are used to jackets fitting.

This styling does not lend itself to guys with a belly. The chest may be the same as your usual size but the waist may be a bit snugger than you are used to.

Many guys find that one size larger than their usual suit jacket size feels better.

But yes the jacket should be able to button. There is no rule that says that just because it is a jacket to be worn with a kilt that it is worn any different than any other jacket. It is just that many leave the jacket open so they do not hide their watch fob and chain.

**vfma78** · 3rd June 19, 07:36 PM

I think I’ll buy one size larger and have a tailor take in the jacket

Thanks for the help! Hey

**Tobus** · 4th June 19, 05:26 AM

Yes the jacket should be able to button, but as Steve said, it is not meant to fit loosely or comfortably when buttoned. The fit of jackets in the UK is much different than the "potato sack" fit that Americans are used to.

I prefer my kilt jackets to be very snug when buttoned, to the point where it's not really even practical to button them. Why? Mainly because I don't want extra material flopping around in front of me when I walk. If the front of the jacket has ample room to be buttoned, that material is going to be "somewhere" when it's not buttoned. It's either going to splay out in front of your body or, when the wind blows and/or you walk forward, it will fold back. But by limiting the amount of material there, even by a tiny bit, it does help minimise that annoyance. And when it's not buttoned, it drapes nicely with enough of a gap to display one's waistcoat, or tie if no waistcoat is worn.

This is not to say that I want a jacket that's too small. As others have said, it should fit nicely (but snugly) in the shoulders and around the back of the upper torso. Ideally, it should have a good taper at the waist and not hang like a potato sack (I find that many modern kilt jackets lack a good tuck/taper at the waist area). The tapering does help with the hang of the front when worn open.

As you already appear to know, kilt jackets are not meant to be worn buttoned. This seems to have evolved from the older historical jackets and doublets that were worn open in the front and were tailored to never even be possible to button up the front (despite all their fancy buttons that were just for decoration). For me, part of the iconic look of a kilt jacket is that it is form-fitting everywhere, but open in front.

**OC Richard** · 4th June 19, 05:26 PM

I'm going to be in the minority, and probably wrong to boot, but as a working piper I need to look smart but at the same time I want to be as comfortable as possible and also put on as little kit as possible.

So I've taken to dispensing with the waistcoat and belt and buttoning the jacket. Buttoning the jacket also keeps the jacket in place while playing the pipes. When I wear an unbuttoned jacket with waistcoat the jacket always ends up in disarray.

About fit, since I have to shove a set of pipes up under one arm and have both arms extended playing the chanter I want the jacket to be somewhat big overall.

**Father Bill** · 4th June 19, 05:30 PM

And OC - in my personal and unprofessional eyes, you always look good, professional, and stylish without ever pushing the envelope or going over the edge.

**Jock Scot** · 4th June 19, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by Father Bill

And OC - in my personal and unprofessional eyes, you always look good, professional, and stylish without ever pushing the envelope or going over the edge.

Quite right Bill, OCR’s attire is a credit to the piper’s trade. As he so rightly points out with the needs and practicalities of wearing kilt attire when playing the pipes, then it does usually require the jacket to be buttoned.

But, BUT, those requirements do not normally apply to general kilt attire requirements where these days the jacket is normally and traditionally left un- buttoned. Now, perhaps from a historical.......depending largely on the era ......point of view things may have been different, but from a traditional point of view un- buttoned is the usual choice for most.