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15th August 19, 09:58 AM
#11
Last of my digression here, then we can return to OP's question. Tobus, yes thankfully the word hasn't been mangled quite that badly. I do think that whenever possible we should use the correct word, spelled correctly, when importing words.
Example: Muenchen is the correct alternative spelling for the city English speakers know as Munich. The 'ue' are allowed under German language conventions in place of u with umlauts (the two dots over the letter). So for English speakers there is no reason to spell or pronounce wrong in this day and age. The only reasonable exceptions I can think of off hand are alphabets like Cyrillic, Arabic, or Cantonese.
It do understand completely the desire of the Welsh or anyone else to make the kilt their own. But the first generation of Welsh kilt wearers is still alive! The Irish have been wearing kilts for about a hundred years, max. It is an imported cultural item. It is not a longstanding and ancient tradition in those lands. Throughout the entirety of their wearing the kilt, the English, Irish, Welsh, Manx, Australian, American, Canadian, Jamaican, and South African people have spoken English.
That brings up point number two. Should we instead promote the term FEILEADH as the correct and propper word? It is after all the root word for the Belted Plaid (Breacan an Feileadh), Great Kilt (Feileadh Mhor) and Small Kilt (Feileadh Beag). Plaid itself seems to have been redefined as a tartan garment worn off the shoulder. Let's leave that on there for now out of simplifying our discussions. It should also be able to be properly spelled in all the Celtic, Anglo, Norman, Germanic and Romantic alphabets. I think that covers everyone in the Western World.
This has been a ranting blowhard special action report, now back to our regularly scheduled programming.
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15th August 19, 10:56 AM
#12
Originally Posted by KnittedReenactor
Last of my digression here, then we can return to OP's question. Tobus, yes thankfully the word hasn't been mangled quite that badly. I do think that whenever possible we should use the correct word, spelled correctly, when importing words.
Example: Muenchen is the correct alternative spelling for the city English speakers know as Munich. The 'ue' are allowed under German language conventions in place of u with umlauts (the two dots over the letter). So for English speakers there is no reason to spell or pronounce wrong in this day and age. The only reasonable exceptions I can think of off hand are alphabets like Cyrillic, Arabic, or Cantonese.
I'm right there with you on that! I lived in Germany as a child. I've been to München, and lived just outside of a tiny village called Börrstadt. I know the umlaut well! I insist on using it (as well as ß, the eszett, rather than cheating with a double "s") when using German words or names. My area of Texas was largely settled by Germans (around Fredericksburg, Boerne, New Braunfels, etc.), and it pains me to hear people butcher the spelling or pronunciation of German names. Even the town name of Boerne should, properly, be Börne since it was named after Ludwig Börne.
Language is a delicate thing. Once the meanings of words are misused or abused, or the spelling is changed, the language becomes something different over time. We Americans are a good example of that. I'm all in favour of going back to the Queen's English, rather than speaking whatever jibber-jabber the kids are speaking today.
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15th August 19, 10:57 AM
#13
For me personally I can only say I did put kilt first. Then changed it to cilt because I thought it would be more appropriate for Welsh topic, I'm somewhat confused about the whole thing myself.
Please feel free to discuss this further, it is interesting.
Last edited by tokareva; 15th August 19 at 10:59 AM.
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15th August 19, 11:06 AM
#14
Originally Posted by FossilHunter
I appreciate the suggestion , but would probably prefer the puffy red dragon hat.
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15th August 19, 11:39 AM
#15
Originally Posted by tokareva
I appreciate the suggestion , but would probably prefer the puffy red dragon hat.
A daffodils no worse than a thistle to me.
Of course I’d probably go with the dragon over those giant pilgrim looking hats welsh women used to wear.
How about a st David’s cross pin? Of course it’d be hard to tell what it was if it was all silver tone. It’d probably be confused with a st George cross.
Last edited by FossilHunter; 15th August 19 at 11:40 AM.
Descendant of the Gillises and MacDonalds of North Morar.
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15th August 19, 01:31 PM
#16
Maybe the Welsh could use an entirely new name, they could call it a Wilt.
Get it? Welsh...Wilt...
Last edited by tokareva; 15th August 19 at 01:40 PM.
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16th August 19, 04:12 AM
#17
At Rugby I saw Welsh wearing these hats
Last edited by OC Richard; 16th August 19 at 04:13 AM.
Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte
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16th August 19, 04:15 AM
#18
Here are some period eyewitness descriptions of Welsh men's costume:
https://welshhat.wordpress.com/types.../mens-costume/
It's quite interesting. Not much mention of hats, but I do wonder what the Monmouth cap is.
Things repeatedly mentioned by various sources:
-trousers open at the knee
-blue the most popular colour for clothing
-red garters
-homespun coats and waistcoats
-corduroy breeches
-mentions of striped clothing
-mentions of plaid clothing "like Scotch plaid"
-handkerchiefs around the neck (and sometimes on the head)
Last edited by OC Richard; 16th August 19 at 04:57 AM.
Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte
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16th August 19, 02:49 PM
#19
Originally Posted by OC Richard
Not much mention of hats, but I do wonder what the Monmouth cap is.
"The only known surviving example of a 16th-century Monmouth Cap - in Monmouth Museum"
From this Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monmouth_cap
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16th August 19, 06:08 PM
#20
Thanks for that! Looks like what in Canada is called a toque, and what here is called a beanie.
What is the loop for?
Last edited by OC Richard; 16th August 19 at 06:09 PM.
Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte
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