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Thread: Brain fart -

  1. #11
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    "gh" and "dh" are both pronounced as a somewhat guttural "ch" i.e. a bit further back in the mouth - a difficult sound for non-Gaels. A non-initial "d" iis always pronounced "t". The "a" is also longer than it would be in English.
    The word is probably related to early French "cadis" = serge. French, of course, may have got it from early Celtic.

    Alan

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Richard View Post
    I've always heard "KAD-uh".

    My Gaelic dictionary says

    cadadh, kadu, n. m. tartan for hose; cota de chadadh nam ball, a coat of the striped tartan.

    About "kadu" I don't know if they're intending schwa for the final u (like the final sound in opera) or the final sound in igloo and hulu. It's tough when a dictionary tries to Anglicise pronunciation rather than using IPA.

    In any case it seems they're saying that cadadh is the fabric the hose are made from rather than the hose themselves. Yet we know in language it's common for meaning to transfer from one to the other (jean was the fabric, not the garment).
    Thanks a million. Yes, I agree with you about the dictionary formatting pronunciation. "ooo" is a different sound than a schwa!

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jthk View Post
    Thanks a million. Yes, I agree with you about the dictionary formatting pronunciation. "ooo" is a different sound than a schwa!
    And, as I have said, neither is correct For example here is "taladh" (as in "Tàladh Chrìosda ")
    https://forvo.com/word/taladh/

    Alan

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  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jthk View Post
    Jock, may I ask how you would pronounce *cadadh*? With my Donegal Irish, I'd say "KAD-oo" and my guess is the Gaelic would be "KAD-ah" but I'm unsure.

    Thank you,
    Jonathan
    Nearly missed your post Jonathan, sorry.

    I am not a regular Gaelic user, or fluent in any way, but I will do my best. Difficult to explain, but try this. A hard CADA and a soft "dh" and getting softer as the word finishes, although the soft "dh" is pronounced as a guttural but soft "ch". So its CADAch.
    Last edited by Jock Scot; 8th September 19 at 09:51 AM.
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

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  7. #15
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    If you want to get really technical, it goes like this.
    Both <dh>and <gh> are /ɣ/ (i.e. the voiced equivalent of <ch>, phonetically /x/) when broad (i.e. around back vowels) but when slender, <dh> is /ʝ/ (voiced palatal fricative) and <gh> is /j/ (semi-vowel, as the <y> in English 'yellow').
    So "mu dheireadh thall" = "at long last" has the initial "dh" pronounced as "y" but the final "dh" is a voiced "ch"
    As I said above, listen to the audio for"taladh"

    Alan
    Last edited by neloon; 9th September 19 at 01:44 AM.

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  9. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jock Scot View Post
    Nearly missed your post Jonathan, sorry.

    I am not a regular Gaelic user, or fluent in any way, but I will do my best. Difficult to explain, but try this. A hard CADA and a soft "dh" and getting softer as the word finishes, although the soft "dh" is pronounced as a guttural but soft "ch". So its CADAch.
    Jock,

    Thanks a million for the notes. While my Irish is good, my Gaelic is non-existent. I hope to attend SMO on Skye one summer -- they have classes for fluent Irish speakers to learn Gaelic. I hope to take advantage of that sooner than later.

    Ádh mór,
    Jonathan

  10. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by neloon View Post
    If you want to get really technical, it goes like this.
    Both <dh>and <gh> are /ɣ/ (i.e. the voiced equivalent of <ch>, phonetically /x/) when broad (i.e. around back vowels) but when slender, <dh> is /ʝ/ (voiced palatal fricative) and <gh> is /j/ (semi-vowel, as the <y> in English 'yellow').
    So "mu dheireadh thall" = "at long last" has the initial "dh" pronounced as "y" but the final "dh" is a voiced "ch"
    As I said above, listed to the audio for"taladh"

    Alan
    Alan: thank you for that very detailed explanation. I must admit that I needed to consult my linguist wife to assist with some of those details. Good on you!

    All the best,
    Jonathan

  11. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by neloon View Post
    The word is probably related to early French "cadis" = serge. French, of course, may have got it from early Celtic.

    Alan
    I believe red and white diced hose are often called ‘caddis’ hose, but I may be wrong.
    PATRIAE INSERVIENDO CONSVMOR

  12. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by McCracken140 View Post
    I believe red and white diced hose are often called ‘caddis’ hose, but I may be wrong.
    No, you are correct.

    Alan

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  14. #20
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    Not all Gaelic dictionaries give Cadadh and those that do translate it variously as tartan, caddis (coarse woollen fabric or yarn) etc.

    Origin of caddis seem to be c1570–80; probably from Middle French cadis, a kind of woollen cloth, from the Old Provençal Catalan cadirs, a word of obscure origin; and later Middle English cadace, cadas material for padding doublets.

    It may therefore have been brought into Gaelic through Middle English but I've always understood the origin of the Anglicisedcadadh is from the Gaelic Cath Dath (Kah Dah) - literally, War Colours.

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