SLEEVE LENGTH: MONTROSE Vs THE REST!

[Blaidd]

Dear Rabble,
For reasons with which I will not bore you, I am looking at a Montrose jacket. Whilst fairly conversant with fitting 'etiquette' for uniform/jackets etc, I have noticed that several Montrose jackets appear to have a shorter sleeve length than their routine counterparts.
My question therefore, is whether this is standard practice in order to take account of the formal lace cuff? (which I suspect could perhaps otherwise completely encase the hand).
Grateful for any informed guidance.

[Tobus]

Yes, that's my understanding. A Montrose would generally (but not always) be worn with lace jabot and cuffs, so a shorter sleeve length would accommodate them.

[OC Richard]

On the other hand I've seen the Montrose worn with the lapels open, with shirt and tie, and no lace jabot or cuffs.

It just depends on how you intend to wear it.

Seeing that the Montrose is an invention of the 20th century, perhaps in the 1920s, I thought I'd take a look at the way it was shown by the firms making them, soon after their introduction.

Here, Rowan's, in 1938



Unknown date, Fraser Ross, probably 1930s



Note that ordinary cuffs are worn. It makes me wonder when people started wearing lace cuffs with the Montrose.

By the way the Anderson's 1936 catalogue doesn't mention the Montrose, suggesting that it wasn't in common use at that time.

[Blaidd]

On the other hand I've seen the Montrose worn with the lapels open, with shirt and tie, and no lace jabot or cuffs.

It just depends on how you intend to wear it.

Seeing that the Montrose is an invention of the 20th century, perhaps in the 1920s, I thought I'd take a look at the way it was shown by the firms making them, soon after their introduction.

Here, Rowan's, in 1938



Unknown date, Fraser Ross, probably 1930s



Note that ordinary cuffs are worn. It makes me wonder when people started wearing lace cuffs with the Montrose.

By the way the Anderson's 1936 catalogue doesn't mention the Montrose, suggesting that it wasn't in common use at that time.

OCR,

Grateful thanks indeed. I have to say that I am not the biggest fan of the lace cuff, preferring French cuffs with most of my dress shirts. I particularly like the first image with the single breasted approach!
The historical detail as always, is most welcome too, thank you (must say, I would love copies of the various brochures you display - always great reading!).

I will keep considering my options, now that I have the historical perspective - I suspect it is the military man in me being drawn towards the 'military-esque' styling

[OC Richard]

It is interesting how, after nearly a century of making do with the Doublet and Argyll, both of which had open lapels, Highland Evening Dress suddenly introduced Evening Dress jackets with military-style "stand collars" in the decade immediately following the end of WWI.

BTW stand collars appeared in military uniform in the early 19th century; 18th century jackets, military and civilian alike, had open collars with lapels.

One wonders if the sudden appearance of stand collars in Highland Evening jackets in the 1920s was WWI military influence, or reaching back into 19th century costume.

It does run counter to a typical trend in men's civilian fashion: following a big war men's civilian fashion goes 180 degrees from military uniforms, and tends to be loose and comfortable. In long periods of peace men's civilian fashion sometimes gets a military flavour. Odd, that.

[Blaidd]

It is interesting how, after nearly a century of making do with the Doublet and Argyll, both of which had open lapels, Highland Evening Dress suddenly introduced Evening Dress jackets with military-style "stand collars" in the decade immediately following the end of WWI.

BTW stand collars appeared in military uniform in the early 19th century; 18th century jackets, military and civilian alike, had open collars with lapels.

One wonders if the sudden appearance of stand collars in Highland Evening jackets in the 1920s was WWI military influence, or reaching back into 19th century costume.

It does run counter to a typical trend in men's civilian fashion: following a big war men's civilian fashion goes 180 degrees from military uniforms, and tends to be loose and comfortable. In long periods of peace men's civilian fashion sometimes gets a military flavour. Odd, that.

Interesting observation OCR and thank you. Allied to that, the military too reached back to the 19thC during an earlier restructuring of the armed forces in UK (read amalgamations). We moved away from the open fronted mess dress jackets and back to the high collared jackets and similarly collared full buttoned waistcoats. It removed the need for a neck tie, but was far less comfortable! That said, my waistcoat does sit rather nicely under a sheriffmuir doublet!