Brown sporran with eveningwear?

[Luke MacGillie]

I guess I’m more curious about how rigid this convention is, or should be. Here’s a fashion designer in what appears to be a brown velvet tuxedo with brown shoes and black bow tie and lapels. It breaks several “rules” simultaneously, but I rather like the overall effect:
https://smhttp-ssl-39255.nexcesscdn....es-606x900.jpg

There is no accounting for bad taste, except in the pocket books of designers who try and sell such tripe to the public and a loss of social capital of the wearers. Appearing in such should lead to public snubs, and a distinct tapering off of invitations to social events, perhaps even hosts recalling invitations for already RSVP'd events. We don't do shame anymore, and that is a shame.

[RichardtheLarge]

There is no accounting for bad taste, except in the pocket books of designers who try and sell such tripe to the public and a loss of social capital of the wearers. Appearing in such should lead to public snubs, and a distinct tapering off of invitations to social events, perhaps even hosts recalling invitations for already RSVP'd events. We don't do shame anymore, and that is a shame.

To clarify this point—supposing there was a highland black tie event, and guests wore doublets of various colors, including black, blue, green, burgundy, and brown. Do you propose ejecting the guest in the brown doublet and permitting doublets in all the other colors?

[RichardtheLarge]

I think it's very helpful to remember that terms like "semi-formal sporran" and "weathered tartan" are marketing terms used by the manufacturers to sell more product.

The conventions are more the fruit of long experience and the slow changes in traditional fashion.

So for formal evening dress, black and silver are the conventions. They are tweaked by full-mask sporrans like the one you describe or by brown fur sporrans, or even by colorful velvet doublets. The colorful patterns of the kilts worn in Highland dress may be enough tweaking on their own.

But generally speaking, hiking boots and a brown leather sporran with brass cantle wouldn't be suitable for evening wear. Long experience and slow fashion call those items "daywear."

Now the catalog can call them "dressy night-time boots" or a "formal brass sporran" or whatever they want, but they still don't fit with the convention.

Thanks for your input. I’d like to present one last example for your consideration. Here is a brown leather body, brown fur, brass cantled “dress sporran” sporran:

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/xDQAA...1DS/s-l400.jpg

Suitable for evening wear? Dressy day wear? Nothing at all, as yet another bugbear?

[OC Richard]

I’m curious what the rabble thinks about sporrans with brown leather components being used for eveningwear...

Without yet looking at the sporrans referenced or reading any of the other comments, I'll say that I always take the long view of things.

In the 18th century all sporrans I see are brown, while belts and shoes are black. In the portraits of the time a dichotomy between "day" and "evening" costume isn't apparent.

In the mid-19th century one begins to see "day" and "evening" costumes sorting themselves out to some extent. Long hair sporrans are worn for both, but for "day" one often sees brown-grey hair and brown leather fittings, for "evening" white hair and black leather and silver fittings.

In the immediate post-WWI period Highland Dress suddenly became much more organized; the long hair sporrans of the Victorians were replaced by a suite of new sporrans, small and pocket-like, with brown leather for "day" and grey sealskin with silver fittings for "evening". (Evening sporrans had no visible leather at all.) People begin using those very terms "day dress" and "evening dress" and also begin speaking about what is "correct" for each. The relative chaos and freedom of Victorian Highland Dress is replaced by precise rules.

Highland Dress hasn't really changed much since the post-WWI overhaul; it is our "traditional modern Highland Dress" of today.

One can wear whatever one wants, but if you're attending a function you're not in a vacuum but in the presence of others. Some of these people might know traditional Highland Dress will notice if somebody wears brown shoes or a brown sporran with Evening Dress. It would stand out as much, to people accustomed to Highland Dress, as somebody showing up at a black-tie function wearing a black Tuxedo jacket and camouflage shorts.

Are we in a "post-traditional" period? Who can say. In the main I see people maintaining the categories of Highland Dress that were set down c1920, but there are genre-bending outfits being worn, like the tweed Prince Charlies.

In the end, it's just clothes!

[OC Richard]

I’d like to present one last example for your consideration.

Suitable for evening wear? Dressy day wear? Nothing at all, as yet another bugbear?

This sporran screams "day dress" to me.

In the modern traditional Highland Dress as it's come down to us from the early 20th century, Evening sporrans "must" have silver fittings. Brass fittings and brown leather are 100% Day Dress, as is the brown fur.

True, this particular sporran is a modern mongrel, with its chained belled tassels. It's a modern imitation/reinterpretation of a style that's been around for over a century, the Hunting Sporran.

In their original pure form Hunting Sporrans were all-leather, with brass studs:



But there were also ones with 18th-century style opening metal tops, and tassels, falling somewhere between a reproduction 18th century sporran and an Edwardian Hunting Sporran



These are sometimes seen with fur. The modern sporran at top, it seems to me, is trying to invoke this style. To me, the modern sporran above would look much better with leather tassels, and a more traditional-looking cantle.

[Luke MacGillie]

To clarify this point—supposing there was a highland black tie event, and guests wore doublets of various colors, including black, blue, green, burgundy, and brown. Do you propose ejecting the guest in the brown doublet and permitting doublets in all the other colors?

Depends on the context. What did the invitation stipulate? If they are showing up dressed contrary to the hosts desires, then yes, eject them, no different than being drunk and causing a disturbance. You are disrespecting the host by your choices, and should suffer the consequences.

If its public, and simply in poor taste, that person might not get an invitation to the next private event. Actions have consequences right? I don't care much for what the majority of society does anymore. They can all wear sandals, utilikilts and tye dye shirts if they want. Does not make them right by sheer numbers.

[OC Richard]

To clarify this point—supposing there was a highland black tie event, and guests wore doublets of various colors, including black, blue, green, burgundy, and brown. Do you propose ejecting the guest in the brown doublet and permitting doublets in all the other colors?

I don't know about "eject" but for sure brown has traditionally been associated with Day Dress.

In 1949 when Dalgleish introduced their line of "reproduction" colours one had the possibility of brown versions of many traditional Clan tartans and these of course could find their way to Evening functions. Possibly because of the old feeling that brown was most suitable for Day Dress, I most often saw these reproduction/weathered kilts worn with Day than with Evening dress.

In any case the other colours you mention, specifically black, deep blue, Archer green, and claret have since the 1920s been standard colours for Highland Evening Dress.

[OC Richard]

https://thehighlandshoppe.com/produc...dress-sporran/

About the sporrans of your original post, this one, to me, is a hideous mongrel. In it elements of various traditional styles are fighting for attention, and losing.

https://www.kinlochanderson.com/shop...-chain-tassels

This one is much easier on the eye, and sits in a tradition going back to the early 20th century when these brown leather pocket-shaped "day" sporrans appeared. From the get-go they often had fur fronts, the fur in no way making them anything other than ordinary "day" sporrans. However the silver bits don't quite go, and would be better left off IMHO.

For comparison some traditional day sporrans

[RichardtheLarge]

About the sporrans of your original post, this one, to me, is a hideous mongrel. In it elements of various traditional styles are fighting for attention, and losing.



This one is much easier on the eye, and sits in a tradition going back to the early 20th century when these brown leather pocket-shaped "day" sporrans appeared. From the get-go they often had fur fronts, the fur in no way making them anything other than ordinary "day" sporrans. However the silver bits don't quite go, and would be better left off IMHO.

For comparison some traditional day sporrans

Fascinating. Thank you for your input.

[MacRobert's Reply]

Here is one of those uncommon exceptions to the norm where a formal sporran has the leather fully visible. However, it is white!