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Thread: Vegan kilts

  1. #11
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    Interesting points for sure.
    I can say that for many vegans, it's not just the "death" that they avoid, it's the enslavement. Keeping animals confined against their will or nature, for production to suit the needs of humans.
    One could say "yeah but sheep need to be sheared", they need to be sheared because we bred them to overproduce wool in a way that the sheep can't live naturally. That's not cool in my books. I have also witnessed sheep shearing here in Canada, and it's cruel and hurtful to the animal, period. If I trimmed your pets hair the way they shear a sheep, you'd arrest me for animal cruelty and call me a monster.
    One could say "we don't have to kill a cow to get it's milk", but the act of repeated impregnation and the removal of their young just to benefit from their milk production is also not cool in my books. One could also say "well that's how we've done it for thousands of years" but as a sentient being capable of advanced thought, I believe it's up to us to challenge ideas that are 1000's of years old in favour of progression under the guidance of compassion and empathy. There are new "vegan" leathers that aren't plastic or rubber, that are proving to be both sustainable, and durable. There are new cruelty free fabrics that are not poly-based that are quite promising, there's also the good old standby of hemp...but the US is so bassackwards about hemp that it will be a long while before we see serious gains in that production I'm afraid.
    So in short, when I see someone trying to make new and improved 'vegan' products, I see it as compassionate progress swimming upstream against a sea of naysayers and traditionalists. And unless you're not drinking soda, or water, or your milk from a plastic container, or avoiding all petroleum based travel, or sourcing all of your consumed goods from your backyard, I'd hazard that the oil-based consumption of 99.9% of the REST of your non-kilt buying day kinda far outweigh any complaints about buying a PV kilt once in a long while.
    ...
    Or something like that.

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adoom View Post
    Interesting points for sure.
    I can say that for many vegans, it's not just the "death" that they avoid, it's the enslavement. Keeping animals confined against their will or nature, for production to suit the needs of humans.
    One could say "yeah but sheep need to be sheared", they need to be sheared because we bred them to overproduce wool in a way that the sheep can't live naturally. That's not cool in my books. I have also witnessed sheep shearing here in Canada, and it's cruel and hurtful to the animal, period. If I trimmed your pets hair the way they shear a sheep, you'd arrest me for animal cruelty and call me a monster.
    One could say "we don't have to kill a cow to get it's milk", but the act of repeated impregnation and the removal of their young just to benefit from their milk production is also not cool in my books. One could also say "well that's how we've done it for thousands of years" but as a sentient being capable of advanced thought, I believe it's up to us to challenge ideas that are 1000's of years old in favour of progression under the guidance of compassion and empathy. There are new "vegan" leathers that aren't plastic or rubber, that are proving to be both sustainable, and durable. There are new cruelty free fabrics that are not poly-based that are quite promising, there's also the good old standby of hemp...but the US is so bassackwards about hemp that it will be a long while before we see serious gains in that production I'm afraid.
    So in short, when I see someone trying to make new and improved 'vegan' products, I see it as compassionate progress swimming upstream against a sea of naysayers and traditionalists. And unless you're not drinking soda, or water, or your milk from a plastic container, or avoiding all petroleum based travel, or sourcing all of your consumed goods from your backyard, I'd hazard that the oil-based consumption of 99.9% of the REST of your non-kilt buying day kinda far outweigh any complaints about buying a PV kilt once in a long while.
    ...
    Or something like that.
    The primary environmental concern is that PV and other petroleum sourced fabric products shed a myriad of plastic microfilaments every time they are laundered—they enter the groundwater and reservoirs via a laundry machine drain pipe, and are too small to be captured by conventional water filtration equipment. These microfilaments essentially don’t biodegrade in any reasonable span of time and have been discovered in the organs of both fish and humans. In the long term, they seem to be disrupting the normal reproductive cycle of fish and can thereby threaten entire ecosystems.

    I do own one PV kilt, as it happens, and I have some PV linings in jackets and so on—but these generally aren’t laundered. I am making every effort to buy natural fiber garments due to the long term petroleum pollution concerns.

    There is no modern agriculture of any kind that is free from animal cruelty/suffering, including hemp, cotton, and other “vegan fibers”. Animals are displaced from their homes in their millions every season simply to clear the path for industrialized agriculture of all plant crops. This is an unavoidable fact of life, unless one chose to establish a rural homestead, plow, plant and harvest by hand without the use of any pesticides or heavy machinery, and try to subsist on whatever yield remained after the normal course of insect and mammal scavenging.
    Last edited by RichardtheLarge; 21st January 20 at 01:32 PM.

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  5. #13
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    I will say, as someone who has very sensitive skin and a whole ton of different weird allergies, if it wasn't for the availability of synthetic material kilts, I probably wouldn't be able to wear one. Wool and I do not get along well. No problems with alpaca, but I have yet to see an alpaca wool kilt.

  6. #14
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    The article makes it sound way-more difficult than it is. For years people have been trapping and skinning the wild Pleated Rayon, (also called the PolyVy's in UK and Europe), dressing the hide and coloring it, then making kilts and other stylish attire. The belts and fittings on the garments are often fashioned from the processed droppings of free-range Scandinavian Naughas. True fact! -- you can look it up.
    "Simplify, and add lightness" -- Colin Chapman

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  8. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adoom View Post
    Interesting points for sure.
    I can say that for many vegans, it's not just the "death" that they avoid, it's the enslavement.
    I find the use of the emotive use of the word enslavement kind of interesting. Are domestic animals slaves well not really. Do you take your slave dog for a walk? Is a bee in a hive a slave to its human masters? There is a big difference from domestication and enslavement.A lot of vegan augments are emotive and sentimental in nature.

    Humans are sentient and bees and dogs are not.We are creativity, intelligence, and self-awareness so can be enslaved, you can take away someone's human rights.

    If you domesticate (you would say enslaved) a bee are you taking away its "bee rights". Do we need to stand up for bee rights and they have the same value as an humans. Would you risk you life to save a drowning honey bee in the same way you would to save a drowning child?

    Animals are domesticated human beings are enslaved.
    Last edited by Howling Dingo; 3rd February 20 at 03:56 PM.

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  10. #16
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    I'm sorry you had trouble with my use of the word "enslaved", I can see why someone would have difficulty with that.

    Dogs, pretty much any animal with a thought process, are in fact sentient, since sentient is defined as "capable of thoughts and feeling". It's also why we have to "break" animals to change their thoughts to allow themselves to be in our "service". And yes, dogs actually do have rights, which is why we have animal cruelty laws. We don't apply the rules equally, which can be problematic. If you shaved your dog in the same manner as a sheep is sheered you'd be locked up on animal cruelty charges. Bee's are a hard point for me, I believe the struggle of the current North American bee population is due to man made threats, but I also believe (or Bee-lieve if you will) that bee keepers are the only people truly concerned and working to save them. So that's one that I haven't resolved in my mind yet.

  11. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adoom View Post
    It's also why we have to "break" animals to change their thoughts to allow themselves to be in our "service".
    But to be fair, we have to do that with humans too. Obedience training for a dog and training a horse (I use only natural horsemanship methods on mine), are not that different than teaching discipline to a child. It's simply part of existing together, so that we ALL enjoy a modicum of rights without hurting each other.

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  13. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adoom View Post
    If you shaved your dog in the same manner as a sheep is sheered you'd be locked up on animal cruelty charges. Bee's are a hard point for me, I believe the struggle of the current North American bee population is due to man made threats, but I also believe (or Bee-lieve if you will) that bee keepers are the only people truly concerned and working to save them.
    Not looking to argue and fight, but just to clarify and understand your position. How exactly have you seen sheep shearing been done? A sheep should not be beaten, nor bruised, nor bleeding with a competent shearer. If the animal is injured, the shearer either doesn't know what he's doing or is intentionally harming the sheep- both are problems, but with the individual. Many heavy coated dogs are shorn to a low coat, either for aesthetics or dealing with the summer heat. Poodles are a great example of large amounts of fur being cut quite short, but the animal is unharmed.

    Also, honey bees (which I am assuming you are referring to) are not native to the Americas, but imported in 1600s. They compete with native pollinators, and if removed from the North America ecosystem would not result in the mass extinction of food crops, wild animals and humanity.
    We humans have greatly altered the evolution and ecosystems of many animals do to their domestication and dispersion. I will grant you that. Domestic sheep are the way they are because they were selectively bred to benefit humans-yes.

    For reference sake, https://youtu.be/LZl11JSyE2I, here is a video of a ewe being sheared. I did not notice a single drop of blood or bruise, it is a bit awkward and possibly uncomfortable for the sheep, but in about five minutes it is done and she's back to her pen. In fact, that trimmer looks a lot like the one my barber uses on me!

    Those who torture and abuse innocents and the defenseless are disgusting to me; animal, child, or woman. They deserve all they get and more, for if not stopped they are statistically likely to turn on the rest of us (ie- that's how you get serial killers). However, sheep shearing does not fit this in my opinion.

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