Newbie Intro and Gold Buttons

[Dr Bee]

I picked up a used archer green Kenmore doublet with square gold-plated buttons a few years ago. Sadly one button was missing and finding a duplicate impossible, so I replaced them all with 19th Century silver-plated losenge shaped ones. The doublet was made in 1961 by Stewart Christie of Edinburgh, a premier bespoke tailor. The gold against the dark green looked fine!

Interestingly, Houstons of Paisley offer gilt square buttons on their bespoke evening jackets at some additional cost but I appreciate they might be of a different design to the ones originally on your Kenmore.

[Jock Scot]

I wouldn't worry about it, if you like them, then wear them. I venture to suggest that most would not notice and those that do would more than likely, put it down "personal flair".

[Lehane]

I wouldn't worry about it, if you like them, then wear them. I venture to suggest that most would not notice and those that do would more than likely, put it down "personal flair".

I also like the variation from Sir Douglas Bader: 'Rules are made for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools!'

[Queenslander]

As you are embracing your Irish heritage, Scottish traditions need not apply? I think the Brian Boru jackets (marketed as Irish equivalent to the Prince Charlie) have round buttons. Not sure on the colour though.

[Jock Scot]

I also like the variation from Sir Douglas Bader: 'Rules are made for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools!'

I have heard both versions-----and some a lot less tactful-------but I am not sure who first came up with the saying, but I think it may be a version of an ancient Chinese proverb?

[Lehane]

As you are embracing your Irish heritage, Scottish traditions need not apply? I think the Brian Boru jackets (marketed as Irish equivalent to the Prince Charlie) have round buttons. Not sure on the colour though.

Well, I guess if I were true to Irish tradition I probably wouldn't kilt at all. ;) There are so many 'myths', and I mean that in the Joseph Campbell sense, that surround 'the kilt,' the leine, etc. If you get right to it, in a sense, the Roman Legion wore kilts.

I am 72 and a reprobate fighter pilot so, again in the broad sense, IDGAS, what people think. I have, however, in my old age mellowed to where I try not to deliberately offend people's 'sensibilities.'

I really enjoy exploring all things Celtic which I was deprived of in my youth. LOL

As I said before I have great admiration for my Scot cousins who have done well in preserving the essence of the Scot.

In another post I asked for comments on my first Burns dinner dress choice(s):
Irish National Kilt
Sherrifmuir Black
No Belt
5 button WC
Black seal sporran
Bottle green hose with either Irish or bottle green flashes
Buckle brogues

I am toying with both a fly plaid and/or Jabot. Pictures from last year's Burns dinner show a mix or both Jabot and plaids.
Not sure about the lace cuffs, they look cool, but may be a bit foppish?

If not the Jabot probably a bottle green cravat with ruche knot. Got any opinions?

I did see one post against saffron kilts but I am not sure why. Solid dyed kilts came before tartan weaving and the Royal Irish Regiment uses bottle green over saffron. Again, I am still learning the nuances and I don't have any 'prejudices'. I can learn them later, I'm sure. ;)

[Jock Scot]

Well, I guess if I were true to Irish tradition I probably wouldn't kilt at all. ;) There are so many 'myths', and I mean that in the Joseph Campbell sense, that surround 'the kilt,' the leine, etc. If you get right to it, in a sense, the Roman Legion wore kilts.

I am 72 and a reprobate fighter pilot so, again in the broad sense, IDGAS, what people think. I have, however, in my old age mellowed to where I try not to deliberately offend people's 'sensibilities.'

I really enjoy exploring all things Celtic which I was deprived of in my youth. LOL

As I said before I have great admiration for my Scot cousins who have done well in preserving the essence of the Scot.

In another post I asked for comments on my first Burns dinner dress choice(s):
Irish National Kilt
Sherrifmuir Black
No Belt
5 button WC
Black seal sporran
Bottle green hose with either Irish or bottle green flashes
Buckle brogues

I am toying with both a fly plaid and/or Jabot. Pictures from last year's Burns dinner show a mix or both Jabot and plaids.
Not sure about the lace cuffs, they look cool, but may be a bit foppish?

If not the Jabot probably a bottle green cravat with ruche knot. Got any opinions?

I did see one post against saffron kilts but I am not sure why. Solid dyed kilts came before tartan weaving and the Royal Irish Regiment uses bottle green over saffron. Again, I am still learning the nuances and I don't have any 'prejudices'. I can learn them later, I'm sure. ;)

Alright I will have a go at answering your questions. However.....

I get the feeling that you could be tending to overdress for the occasion. Burns nights are not really events that require the attire that you are suggesting, but I could be wrong as I don't know the venue or what the invitation suggests.

If the Irish National tartan is your choice, then wear it.

Does the event warrant a Sherrifmuir? Personally I don't think it does.

Quite right no belt with waist coat.

If you are insisting on wearing a sherrifmuir then a 5 button waistcoat is fine.

Lace cuffs are far from foppish when worn on the right occasion. Just avoid dipping them in the soup!

A black seal sporran is fine.

Bottle green hose are fine although your intended outfit suggests diced hose. I would suggest another colour other than green for the flashes----avoid tartan---blue might be a thought.

Again, does the event really warrant buckle brogues? Not in my experience.

I would avoid the fly plaid at all costs for any event. They are a real pain to wear and a damn nuisance. Save your money.

If its a choice between a jabot or a ruche tie then wear the jabot. Avoid the ruche tie for all events. Again, does the event really warrant this style of attire? A plain self tie black bow tie would be worth serious consideration.

I really and honestly think that you are in danger of "over egging the cake" with the attire choices that you are thinking about.

[Lehane]

Alright I will have a go at answering your questions. However.....

I get the feeling that you could be tending to overdress for the occasion. Burns nights are not really events that require the attire that you are suggesting, but I could be wrong as I don't know the venue or what the invitation suggests.

If the Irish National tartan is your choice, then wear it.

Does the event warrant a Sherrifmuir? Personally I don't think it is.

Quite right no belt with waist coat.

If you are insisting on wearing a sherrifmuir then a 5 button waistcoat is fine.

Lace cuffs are far from foppish when worn on the right occasion. Just avoid dipping them in the soup!

A black seal sporran is fine.

Bottle green hose is fine although your intended outfit suggests diced hose. I would suggest another colour other than green for the flashes----avoid tartan---blue might be a thought.

Again, does the event really warrant buckle brogues? Not in my experience.

I would avoid the fly plaid all costs for any event. They area real pain to wear and a damn nuisance. Save your money.

If its a choice between a jabot or a ruche tie then wear the jabot. Avoid the ruche tie for all events. Again, does the event really warrant this style of attire? A plain self tie black bow tie would be worth serious consideration.

I really and honestly think that you are in danger of "over egging the cake" with the attire choices that you are thinking about.

Thanks!
I have a very full wardrobe PC, Argyle, and Sherrifmuir - I prefer the Sherrifmuir as I am waaaay overweight and the S is kindlier on my figure. I agree that I may be over egging, I am a clothes horse premiere. LOL

The invitation says black tie or highland attire. I looked at pictures from the last two years and it is a mishmash from non-highlands to shirt and kilt all the way through Montrose doublets. Quite a few fly plaids and a few jabots. So bottom line not much of a consensus there.

Again, my ancestry is Irish so I do have a saffron kilt, I also have a black, a USAF, and a 'Spirit of the Celts' which is a dark blue/green tartan. No I am not rich, just retired with few expenses. So this is my new 'hobby.'

I ordered real diced hose, ancient blue/green, from Labhran (wow you talk about $$$$) but that was in December and they cited the Scottish holiday so I don't expect them in time for Burns.

So you have me thinking about dropping the plaid. I might go with the USAF tartan since it is not as bright and I will be wearing my decorations and wings. I like my heritage national but it is the quintessential example of 'bright' - no one will have a hard time finding you in an Irish National! LOL

Thanks for your sanity check, particularly Jabot/cuffs versus cravat.

[RichardtheLarge]

I wouldn't worry about it, if you like them, then wear them. I venture to suggest that most would not notice and those that do would more than likely, put it down "personal flair".

Jock, do you feel that the same would be true for gold-tone sporran cantles, or not so much? I’ve seen some MOD cantles rebagged as evening sporrans that look quite good to me.

[Jock Scot]

Jock, do you feel that the same would be true for gold-tone sporran cantles, or not so much? I’ve seen some MOD cantles rebagged as evening sporrans that look quite good to me.

Yes I think so. I am not at all sure that anyone really notices these things when worn at the appropriate time. With the multi forms of lighting and the resulting assorted shadowing effects it would be quite difficult to define colours. Besides, it’s not a sporran show, so there are far more interesting things going on. Therefore whilst a super dooper, multi metalled cantle may or may not be to everyone’s taste on a website such as this, it really is when taken as part of the whole(event), pretty insignificant.