X Marks the Scot - An on-line community of kilt wearers.

   X Marks Partners - (Go to the Partners Dedicated Forums )
USA Kilts website Freedom Kilts website Scotweb websiten Burnetts and Struth website Celtic Croft website
Xmarks advertising information Celtic Corner website Xmarks advertising information Houston Kiltmakers Xmarks advertising information

User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19
  1. #1
    Join Date
    14th July 15
    Location
    Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    408
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    origins of the right-hand fringe

    Comrades,

    Do we know the origins of the right-hand fringe? I suspect it's an attempt to mimic the edge of the belted plaid; as an occasional wearer of the belted plaid, a fringe has naturally developed on the right-hand side. But then I seem to recall early-20th century kilts having a clean, un-fringed edge.

    Best,
    Jonathan

  2. #2
    Join Date
    10th December 06
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    13,928
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The earliest 4 yard kilts did not have a fringe, military kilts do not have a fringe. I would think that the fringe came about as part of the Victorian movement toward all things Highland wear.

  3. The Following User Says 'Aye' to McMurdo For This Useful Post:


  4. #3
    Join Date
    14th July 15
    Location
    Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    408
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by McMurdo View Post
    The earliest 4 yard kilts did not have a fringe, military kilts do not have a fringe. I would think that the fringe came about as part of the Victorian movement toward all things Highland wear.
    Thanks!

    Further on the topic: I've seen some older-styled kilts that have the right-hand apron edge folded back on itself once, then stitched in, w/o fringe. Most of my modern traditional kilts have the fringe in addition to several layers of fabric under that right-hand side of the apron.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    27th October 09
    Location
    Kerrville, Texas
    Posts
    5,323
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jthk View Post
    Thanks!

    Further on the topic: I've seen some older-styled kilts that have the right-hand apron edge folded back on itself once, then stitched in, w/o fringe. Most of my modern traditional kilts have the fringe in addition to several layers of fabric under that right-hand side of the apron.
    My ex-MoD kilt is as you describe: just folded back on itself and stitched. They didn't leave a raw edge visible on the inside, so the cut edge was at least folded a bit before the stitching was done. But it doesn't feel like there are a lot of layers of tartan at the right side of the apron like fringed kilts.

    Most kiltmakers these days will do the apron however you want. I would guess that a single or double fringe is standard if not otherwise specified, but some will do triple fringe or no fringe at all. I actually have come to prefer no fringe, and the kilt I'm having made at the moment will be like my military kilt.

  6. The Following User Says 'Aye' to Tobus For This Useful Post:


  7. #5
    Join Date
    14th July 15
    Location
    Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    408
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobus View Post
    My ex-MoD kilt is as you describe: just folded back on itself and stitched. They didn't leave a raw edge visible on the inside, so the cut edge was at least folded a bit before the stitching was done. But it doesn't feel like there are a lot of layers of tartan at the right side of the apron like fringed kilts.

    Most kiltmakers these days will do the apron however you want. I would guess that a single or double fringe is standard if not otherwise specified, but some will do triple fringe or no fringe at all. I actually have come to prefer no fringe, and the kilt I'm having made at the moment will be like my military kilt.
    Gotcha. I tend to be also be moving towards simplicity: 4-yard box pleated kilts with two straps (or twill ties) and no fringe. No belt, no kilt pin. I like the simplicity.

  8. #6
    Join Date
    2nd January 10
    Location
    Crieff, Perthshire
    Posts
    3,793
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by McMurdo View Post
    The earliest 4 yard kilts did not have a fringe, military kilts do not have a fringe. I would think that the fringe came about as part of the Victorian movement toward all things Highland wear.
    If you looks at Victorian photographs the majority, if not all, the kilts have a non-fringe apron. I suspect that it's an early 20th century fad.

  9. The Following User Says 'Aye' to figheadair For This Useful Post:


  10. #7
    Join Date
    2nd January 10
    Location
    Crieff, Perthshire
    Posts
    3,793
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jthk View Post
    Comrades,

    Do we know the origins of the right-hand fringe? I suspect it's an attempt to mimic the edge of the belted plaid; as an occasional wearer of the belted plaid, a fringe has naturally developed on the right-hand side. But then I seem to recall early-20th century kilts having a clean, un-fringed edge.

    Best,
    Jonathan
    Why would you assume that a belted plaid had a fringe? In the 18th century, it was standard to turn and sew down the ends. More here - http://www.scottishtartans.co.uk/Joined_Plaids.pdf

  11. The Following User Says 'Aye' to figheadair For This Useful Post:


  12. #8
    Join Date
    10th December 06
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    13,928
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by figheadair View Post
    If you looks at Victorian photographs the majority, if not all, the kilts have a non-fringe apron. I suspect that it's an early 20th century fad.
    Thank you Peter, my oldest kilt is military and of course has no fringe, my Gunn Modern was made in 1950 and has a fringe.

  13. The Following User Says 'Aye' to McMurdo For This Useful Post:


  14. #9
    Join Date
    14th July 15
    Location
    Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    408
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by figheadair View Post
    Why would you assume that a belted plaid had a fringe? In the 18th century, it was standard to turn and sew down the ends. More here - http://www.scottishtartans.co.uk/Joined_Plaids.pdf
    Perhaps I'm being finicky but I didn't assume that the belted plaid had a fringe but rather suspected simply based on my limited experience wearing something roughly and remotely similar to what was worn at that time and noticing how the edge frayed over time. My knowledge and experience are far less than yours -- based on what I've read in your years of posting here -- so I defer to those such as you who have far more to share than mere suspicions. I wasn't aware that the standard was to turn and sew down the ends -- thanks for sharing! I'll be reading that PDF later tonight!

    Best,
    Jonathan

  15. #10
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    8,276
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's an interesting question, and it makes me want to go through my Victorian photos and see.

    Peter would know, but I've long thought that it looked like the belted plaid had bound edges; no fraying, no fringe.



    For sure if I were re-creating that costume I would bind the edges to approximate that look, even if originally it was got by other means.

    There's one early image, I can't remember now, where some artist depicts a garment somewhere between the ancient Irish brat and the Highland breacan-an-fheilidh, with fur trim bound all around the edges. After all, that's what the belted plaid was, the ancient Gaelic "mantle" wrapped round the body. In Ireland fur trim on the mantle was standard, but at some point it disappeared from its Highland descendant.
    Last edited by OC Richard; 24th March 20 at 05:31 AM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

  16. The Following User Says 'Aye' to OC Richard For This Useful Post:


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.0