X Marks the Scot - An on-line community of kilt wearers.

   X Marks Partners - (Go to the Partners Dedicated Forums )
USA Kilts website Celtic Croft website Celtic Corner website Houston Kiltmakers

User Tag List

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 32

Thread: Favorite Mill?

  1. #11
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    10,560
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Jock, I love the large sett size!

    So many tartans I see woven nowadays in setts that look too small to me.

    Seems that at least some of the mills have the sett size increase as the weight increases. The 16oz cloth is usually big enough.

    When I look through the sample-books of a few different major mills there's a certain amount of agreement as to sett sizes. It's interesting to look at The Highlanders Of Scotland in which men are wearing kilts in smaller and larger sett-sizes than we normally see today, in fabric intended for men's kilts.
    Last edited by OC Richard; 11th May 20 at 04:30 PM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

  2. #12
    Join Date
    26th December 18
    Location
    Nova Scotia
    Posts
    295
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jock Scot View Post
    And then this.First outing.
    Attachment 38678
    Thanks for sharing Jock!

    Ever since I first saw your large sett MacLeod of Harris, I was curious as I hadn't seen it before. Now I know I'll not soon find it!

    Shane

  3. #13
    Join Date
    27th October 09
    Location
    Kerrville, Texas
    Posts
    5,687
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by OC Richard View Post
    Jock, I love the large sett size!

    So many tartans I see woven nowadays in setts that look too small to me.

    Seems that at least some of the mills have the sett size increase as the weight increases. The 16oz cloth is usually big enough.

    When I look through the sample-books of a few different major mills there's a certain amount of agreement as to sett sizes. It's interesting to look at The Highlanders Of Scotland in which men are wearing kilts in smaller and larger sett-sizes than we normally see today, in fabric intended for men's kilts.
    This seems to be driven by kiltmakers and the mills, who have a formula for the ideal sett size for pleating. They want to be around 6" for the sett. I think it's too small, personally. When I did my custom weave, I went with a 7.5" sett by scaling up the thread count. I had to add a few extra threads here and there to get the sett size as large as possible while still being usable for pleating without causing headaches. The proportions are slightly different than the oficial versions, but that's what makes it custom, I reckon.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    6th July 07
    Location
    The Highlands,Scotland.
    Posts
    15,332
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thank you chaps. I am very pleased with how things turned out.

    When I suggested that I wanted a 10 inch sett I really expected the roof to fall in on me! I thought Paul the kilt maker would say that he could not pleat that size to the sett and not a word was said other than perhaps an extra yard of cloth might be needed to give him wriggle room. Likewise, I thought the weaver would come up with some reason that a 10 inch sett could not be done for all sorts of technical reasons that I was unaware of, but again not a word was said. Well, not to me anyway!
    Last edited by Jock Scot; 12th May 20 at 12:10 AM.
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    25th September 04
    Location
    Victoria, BC, Canada 1123.6536.5321
    Posts
    4,794
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If I can add a comment from a kilt maker's standpoint who has done quite a few custom runs.

    There is a minimum yardage requirement from any weaver due to how a loom is warped.
    Some mills have as little as 11 meters double-width and some as much as 36 meters double-width.

    And the majority of the mills today have only double width looms.

    Andrew Elliot does have single width looms, so while the minimum length they can do is about the same, it is one kilt worth instead of almost 3 kilt worth of fabric.

    So, If a customer truly needs just one kilt worth of fabric I would look at a mill that can weave single width fabric.

    For a customer who wants more than a single kilt worth, wants a fly plaid or any accessory that needs double width fabric I would look at the quality of the fabric, the selvedge edge, and the cost - in that order.

    And for double width fabric for a kilt, Andrew Elliot would not be my first choice due to one edge having "floats" where the changes in color happen. You can see these floats in the above photo.

    So yes, if you are going to want single width fabric then Andrew Elliot. If you want double width then my personal preference would be - Marton Mills first, followed by Lochcarron.
    Steve Ashton
    www.freedomkilts.com
    Skype (webcam enabled) thewizardofbc
    I wear the kilt because:
    Swish + Swagger = Swoon.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    2nd January 10
    Location
    Crieff, Perthshire
    Posts
    4,522
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Wizard of BC View Post
    And for double width fabric for a kilt, Andrew Elliot would not be my first choice due to one edge having "floats" where the changes in color happen. You can see these floats in the above photo.

    So yes, if you are going to want single width fabric then Andrew Elliot. If you want double width then my personal preference would be - Marton Mills first, followed by Lochcarron.
    Steve,

    That's interesting. I've never found the floats, which should only be for small stripes, an issue but then I'm not a kiltmaker.

    Marton Mills produce good quality cloth but for me the 'tuck-edge' is a real put off. I really dislike the visual line that is more often than not visible on the bottom of the kilt. Of course some/most Scottish mills are also weaving a tuck-edge nowadays too, but at least they are based in Scotland.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    25th September 04
    Location
    Victoria, BC, Canada 1123.6536.5321
    Posts
    4,794
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Can you see the white float? If that fabric arrived at my shop like that I would not be happy.

    And remember that while the mill may be located in Scotland the owner may be in Japan.

    While a true selvedge is nice, and I may be able to see and appreciate it, very few of my customers can see the difference side-by-side.
    Last edited by The Wizard of BC; 12th May 20 at 03:35 AM.
    Steve Ashton
    www.freedomkilts.com
    Skype (webcam enabled) thewizardofbc
    I wear the kilt because:
    Swish + Swagger = Swoon.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    27th October 09
    Location
    Kerrville, Texas
    Posts
    5,687
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    By "float", are you talking about the white threads carried from one stripe to the next? As far as I know, that's normal and traditional with these old looms. I would also assume that they're trimmed off and tucked in (?) before going for finishing. Perhaps figheadair or someone else knowledgeable with traditional loom work could expand on that. It's important to note that the photo was of the cloth whilst on the loom, not what it would look like when sent to a kiltmaker after finishing.

    When it comes to selvedges, the good thing is that there are options depending on what people want. If someone wants a uniform industrial type selvedge, a tuck selvedge works. If they want a traditional kilting selvedge and don't mind a bit of waviness or other oddities, that's available too.

    My first kilt (the one you fixed, Steve) was Lochcarron 16oz cloth with a tuck selvedge. My second kilt that Barb T. built with DC Dalgliesh cloth has a traditional kilting selvedge. Of the two, I actually prefer the kilting selvedge. It's got some minor distortions which give it character, but more importantly (to me), it's thinner and neater. The tuck selvedge on my other kilt really stands out to me when I see it.

    I'm obviously not a kiltmaker, but I was working with some tartan the other day whilst making a facemask. It was XMTS tartan, which was a lovely heavy wool. I happened to cut my pattern with one straight edge at the selvedge, which was a tuck selvedge. The extra thickness caused some issues with how the cloth lays and folds in my final product. I could not get it to take a sharp crease under the iron, no matter how much steam I put on it. And that edge happened to end up being part of a seam allowance which had to be turned under (inside out). So now there's lumpiness in that mask because the extra thickness of the tuck selvedge won't really fold like the rest of the cloth.

    I would think that kiltmakers just get used to the way a tuck selvedge resists creasing when they're pressing pleats, and it's probably no big deal. But it did irk me a little, and make me appreciate a traditional selvedge that much more.

    And one of the selling points of a traditional selvedge is herringbone (for those weavers who will do it). This sort of loveliness just can't be done with a tuck selvedge. These are the kinds of minor details that a lot of kilt-wearers don't care about, but I wanted to include in my custom run.

    Last edited by Tobus; 12th May 20 at 05:39 AM.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    2nd January 10
    Location
    Crieff, Perthshire
    Posts
    4,522
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobus View Post
    By "float", are you talking about the white threads carried from one stripe to the next? As far as I know, that's normal and traditional with these old looms. I would also assume that they're trimmed off and tucked in (?) before going for finishing. Perhaps figheadair or someone else knowledgeable with traditional loom work could expand on that.
    That is correct. Floats are the result of colour changes in the traditional type of schuttle loom, be it a hand-loom or mechanised-loom. It is normal that the long floats are cut off (the thread can't pull/run) or darned in during the finishing process. Shorter floats, I would never float more than 6 ends on my cloth) are often left as they are held tight to the selvedge by the tension. Has a hand-weaver who manually changes each colour, I would always cut off or weave-in long floats (depending on the end use) as I wove.

    And one of the selling points of a traditional selvedge is herringbone (for those weavers who will do it). This sort of loveliness just can't be done with a tuck selvedge. These are the kinds of minor details that a lot of kilt-wearers don't care about, but I wanted to include in my custom run.
    It's a fabulous traditional feature but does require proper layig out to get it to fall properly in the pattern. I often have to work out the complete warp to get this right.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    10,560
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jock Scot View Post
    When I suggested that I wanted a 10 inch sett I really expected the roof to fall in on me!
    My MOD-style Royal Stewart kilt (from House Of Edgar) has a 9.5 inch sett and I really like the way it looks. Good for you for going with the 10 inch.

    To me a 6 or 7 inch sett often looks too small. But that's what I often see in mens kilts.

    Here, I would guess that the gent on the right has around a 6 inch sett.

    But look at the gent on the left! It's at least twice that.

    Last edited by OC Richard; 19th May 20 at 11:50 AM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.0