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  1. #1
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    Just to twist the tiger's tail....

    Im curious as to thoughts on what makes a kilt a kilt, and at what point does it become just a semi pleated skirt....?

    Does material matter? If so, where does that leave synthetics? What about length? While theres some latitude here, at what point about or below the knee does one get outside the realm of the kilt? What about patterns/ colours? Is tartan a must have feature? Where do "modern" utility type kilts fit in- or do they?

    I'm curious to see the range of opinions here....

  2. #2
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    Putting on my grouchy old man hat (I have them) I'll say that Back In My Day there were only kilts.

    When you said "kilt" it only meant one thing, because there were no others: a full yardage handsewn wool traditional kilt.

    To me that's still what "kilt" means.

    Anything else is a hyphenated or periphrastic kilt:

    Casual-
    Utility-
    Sport-
    Tactical-
    21st Century-
    Contemporary-
    -skirt

    The very presence of the modifiers required for all those not-quite-true-kilts allows the single word "kilt" to retain the meaning it's always had.

    (As an aside, I get tired of hearing of these Tactical Kilts. That's small fry. What I want is a Strategic Kilt, a kilt that sees the big picture.)
    Last edited by OC Richard; 14th June 20 at 12:16 PM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

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  4. #3
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    Crikey!

    There are kilts and then there are proper kilts. All are constructed in roughly a similar fashion, with measurements being taken on, broadly, the same parameters and often using different materials so yes, they are all kilts. However, that does not necessarily make them proper kilts.
    Last edited by Jock Scot; 15th June 20 at 05:31 AM.
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

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  6. #4
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    It is a dark and stormy night, the rain has been lashing down for hours.
    The bar door opens and you stand for a moment outlined against the porch light.
    If you swagger inside dripping from every pleat and shaking the wet hair from your brow - you are wearing a proper kilt.
    Award yourself the beverage of your choice and take a seat by the fire.

    Anne the Pleater
    I presume to dictate to no man what he shall eat or drink or wherewithal he shall be clothed."
    -- The Hon. Stuart Ruaidri Erskine, The Kilt & How to Wear It, 1901.


  7. #5
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    Non tartan kilts have a long history,, so that's not it.
    Short yardage has a long history so that's not it.

    To me it's overall appearance, not wearing a sporran is a major fault, as is length below the knee or way add those two together and I doubt it's a gentlemans kilt.

    On a lady with with no sporran, it's a kilted skirt, what ever the length.
    "We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give"
    Sir Winston Leonard Spencer-Churchill

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  9. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Q View Post
    Non tartan kilts have a long history,, so that's not it.
    Short yardage has a long history so that's not it.

    To me it's overall appearance, not wearing a sporran is a major fault, as is length below the knee or way add those two together and I doubt it's a gentlemans kilt.

    On a lady with with no sporran, it's a kilted skirt, what ever the length.
    I tend to agree with this line of thinking. Tweed kilts have existed since at least the 1800s, with plenty of examples, not to mention the Hodden grey kilts. It is also said that the original "little kilt" was a low yardage (4 yards, likely) kilt. Our modern 8-yard knife-pleated kilt has never been the only standard to exist.

    Even sporrans have not always been standard. WWI military kilts were broadly worn without sporrans, and often covered by a non-pleated over-apron with only a large pocket in the front.

    This is an old debate, and not one we're likely to settle here. People will always find exceptions or outliers which defy classification. I'm tempted to simply say that if it's a skirt-like garment worn by a male that extends from the waist area to the knee area and has pleats round the back with flat front aprons in the front, it's some kind of kilt. Beyond that, we're into subclassifications.

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  11. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Q View Post
    To me it's overall appearance...length below the knee...
    Like this?



    (I'm still trying to figure out what they were thinking.)

    About sporrans, as we know the military has gone sporran-less a number of times over the years, during the Napoleonic Wars and during World War One.

    This is interesting, the combination of Full Dress dirk and no sporran.



    A dapper officer sans sporran.

    Last edited by OC Richard; 17th June 20 at 04:26 PM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

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  13. #8
    Join Date
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    The members of this forum have tried and tried again to come up with a definition of "Kilt".

    We have gone over and over that -
    It is not the type of fabric as there have been kilts made from a very wide range of fabrics over the years.
    It is not the amount of fabric as there have also been kilts made with a very wide range in the amount of fabric used.
    It is not if the garment is stitched by hand or by machine.
    It is not where the garment is made, nor is it the techniques or methods that are used in its construction.
    It is not how it is worn nor what accessories are worn with it.

    Some use terms like "Proper", "Traditional" or "Real" but do not seem to be able to define what features make one garment "Proper", "Traditional", or "Real" and another not.
    Even the "schools" of kiltmaking cannot seem to agree even though they may say such things as "Ours is the only "Proper", "Traditional", "Real" kilt making method."
    The retailers and sellers use the same terms but offer no definition of what they mean by the terms.

    What most will usually agree on is - that a kilt is a male, skirt like garment, with flat aprons in the front, and some sort of pleating in the back. But even this very broad description has not always been what defined "Kilt".

    We have tried and tried to define what makes a garment a kilt and always, we have failed. For every definition that one person can come up with, someone else can find an exception.
    Steve Ashton
    Forum Owner

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  15. #9
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    A proper kilt is indeed difficult to define, nevertheless for those with some experience of kilts can usually tell at a glance what is and what isn’t a proper kilt.

    The uk has two kinds of snake, yes we also have a slow worm too, but apparently biologically it’s a legless lizard. Anyway, we have the more common non poisonous grass snake and the less common and more shy and poisonous( rarely a lethal bite) Adder. Someone inexperienced could see a hundred grass snakes and some might wonder if some of them are adders , but they only need to see one adder to know exactly what they are looking at. Yes! Both species have different markings and colourings that vary from area to area, but both species are very different at a glance.

    Just like a kilt and a proper kilt. Yes, we can go into minute detail about this and that and of course our perceptions are different and we can discuss minute details until the cows come home, but deep down I think with a wee tad of experience we really can tell a proper kilt from another.
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

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  17. #10
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    US Supreme Court Justice Potter Stuart first used the phrase "I know it when I see it" in reference to pornography in 1981.
    He later lamented "In a way I regret having said what I said. Of everything else I have ever said that is the one thing that's going to be on my tombstone."
    He later said "I think the real fallacy of 'I know it when I see it' is that it asks the receiver to give up on objective reality and trust in the rightness of his own subjectivity. And because we're innately trustful of our own good taste, it's instantly attractive. But like all fallacies, it leaves us nowhere and undermines discourse."
    Steve Ashton
    Forum Owner

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