Kilt Tartan Undershorts

[ThistleDown]

It is traditional to have a form of underwear, the Clans before the tartan was banned did use a form of underwear, it was for decency, they would have a button on the shirt that made it underwear, this depended on their position in The Clan, most just knotted it. Often in Winter they used trews under their kilt, this again depended on their position in The Clan most used hose that they wore higher, they would also use leg wrappings often of tartan, most used hose that they wore higher.
The shirt was always worn as underwear, it was used by The Highland Regiments to after the ban on tartan. The tradition used now is recent, it was when underwear was first used, The Military didn't allow it as underwear was against tradition. The Highland Regiments had to do the same so the shirt was to be open so as not to be a form of underwear.
The Highland Regiments almost mutiinied over it but had to do it.
This is where the tradition now started, it isn't traditional but is now. It is more traditional to use underwear under the kilt as they used their shirt as it. The shirt could still be used that way, underwear was always used under the kilt.

Can you provide us with references, MacdonaldofGlencoe? In particular I'm asking about (a) this depended on their position in The Clan, (b) in Winter they used trews under their kilt, (c) most used hose that they wore higher, (d) was used by The Highland Regiments to after the ban on tartan, (f) The Highland Regiments almost mutiinied over it but had to do it.

In this post I am simply asking for your sources. Specifically, I don't know of any ban on tartan in the 18C (d); and I question (a) position in The Clan.

Although I can't quote good authority off the top of my noggin with confidence, I'm pretty sure that in the Central Highlands, at least, folk wrapped up as warmly as they possible could in cold weather. I doubt, however, that leg-wrapping was a priority and was certainly not in 'tartan'. Straw was universally a good insulator for the lower leg even as late as the early 19C.

[neloon]

A short history lesson.
Bishop Leslie, writing in 1578, tells us that Highlanders wore "foemoralia simplicissima, pudori quam frigori aut pompae aptiora" = "very simple shorts, for decency rather than against the cold or for ostentation". At about the same time, Lucas de Heere painted what seems to be a very accurate picture of a "Savage Scotsman" - possibly a mercenary in one of the many European wars.
https://www.englandcast.com/wp-conte...sman.jpeg.jpeg
Shortly afterwards, the feileadh was removed from the shoulders and belted around the waist. There is no reason to suppose that the shorts/trews were abandoned.

A story attributable to Walter Scott was that the Highlanders went into battle without the feileadh and with shirt tails knotted between their legs. Come on - would you like to rush into combat with a muckle great knot tied between your legs? Nevertheless, the tail persists.

Come the Highland regiments and most (?all) private soldiers elected not to wear trews beneath their kilts to minimise laundry on the march. This practice did not apply to officers who were normally Gentlemen of substance and had better laundry facilities. When, around 1800, it was decided to standardise all aspects of dress in the British army, as part of officers' uniform, the army tailors simply produced "shorts" versions of the tartan trews they already knew how to make. This fashion spread to the civilian population. The accounts for Balmoral, for example, where Queen Victoria supplied Highland dress for all her servants, show tartan undertrews as part of the outfit. It was specifically required that undertrews be worn by kilted gentlemen at all Court functions. Here is a photograph from the Aboyne games of 1875 including three athletes who have removed their kilts to compete in the high jump.
https://www.electricscotland.com/gat...ings_pic25.jpg

By 1915, even private soldiers (like my father) were being issued with 'RACD Pattern 8538/1915, “Drawers, short, Highlanders”.' These were to be worn if the medical officer deemed that weather conditions warranted, when the kilt was being de-loused and when the soldier was travelling home on leave.

Alan

[MacDonald of Glencoe]

The Highlanders at the battle of Kilsyth knotted their shirts.

[neloon]

The Highlanders at the battle of Kilsyth knotted their shirts.

This legend has been endlessly repeated. Its origin seems to be a comment in the Red Book of Clanranald which also suggests that it was Montrose who ordered the Highlanders to strip to their shirts for the battle. Why Highlanders needed to be told how to fight (by a Lowlander) is not clear! Nor why there was such a supposed necessity for decency when there were no women around.

Alan

[Steve Ashton]

I don't know, If I were going into battle against guys with sharp swords I think I would want as much protection around my skin as I could get.

Every commander knows -
A cut and bleeding soldier does not do any good in the heat of battle and is a burden on the whole army as wounded later.

[MacDonald of Glencoe]

The Highland Clans often went into battle in knotted shirts, they used their Targes against swords. They were more agile that way.

The Highland Regiments were issued underwear but it was used against gas attack. They would use their Trews when they had their kilts removed to they had them returned.
They never used underwear when on leave, it was against regulations, if caught they would have their leave stopped.

[Steve Ashton]

If there is one thing becoming clear in the world today, is that it is always prudent to ask to see the documentation behind broad statements presented as historical fact.
There have been cases when an unknown piece of paper is newly revealed.

So I ask - would you please share your documentation behind those statements.

If I don't ask, I can't learn.

[neloon]

Anti-gas bloomers were suggested for kilted soldiers in 1939 but were never issued.

Alan

[MacDonald of Glencoe]

They were never issued as they found it costly to produce, anyway they were Pink and The Highland Regiments would never have worn them.

The source of what The Highlanders wore was told to me by a very old Gaelic speaker, he stayed in the hills and wore a kilt.
I was only finding out about Scottish and Highland history and he knew a lot.
We often tried to find out what was under his kilt but eventually had to ask. He showed us a shirt with a button that made it appear to be underwear, he said that it was only those that were higher up The Clan structure that wore them with a button, he said the others usually knotted it.
He showed us how to put on The Plaid upright, he said this is how to put it on like The Highlanders, he told us that all this had told to him by old Highlanders he knew. Nothing was written, it was told.
He knew his genealogy, he could go back years with it.
He also showed us how to fight with a Sword and Targe that he said was how The Highlanders fought. It is very different to what is used now.
When I started Jacobite reenactment I showed others how to fight and put on the Plaid, they had never known about it being out on that way, they only knew the way they put it on now.

[MacDonald of Glencoe]

This shows what the Highlanders fought in.

https://myarmoury.com/feature_armies_scots.html