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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by KennethSime View Post
    Thank you McMurdo! You sure do have a great sense of style - not "matchy," but definitely all "goes."

    I'll be looking at more hose options soon!
    Thank you it has taken years to get comfortable enough to simply wear the clothes and not let the clothes wear me as it were. One thing to consider when contemplating the Windsor knot is the following quote

    "It was tied with a Windsor knot. Bond mistrusted anyone who tied his tie with a Windsor knot. It showed too much vanity. It was often the mark of a cad."

    Ian Fleming
    From Russia With Love

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by McMurdo View Post
    Thank you it has taken years to get comfortable enough to simply wear the clothes and not let the clothes wear me as it were. One thing to consider when contemplating the Windsor knot is the following quote

    "It was tied with a Windsor knot. Bond mistrusted anyone who tied his tie with a Windsor knot. It showed too much vanity. It was often the mark of a cad."

    Ian Fleming
    From Russia With Love
    Well, Ian Fleming would know. He had come across more than a few cads in his time.
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

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  5. #23
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    The four-in-hand knot supposedly was the choice of coachmen at one time, hence the name. It is certainly the most common tie knot in the US, although I use the half-Windsor more, myself. Although, to be faire, I usually wear a bow tie, which simplifies everything: there's only one knot and I never have to worry about it being too long or too short. And I can tie it with my eyes closed.

    And you'll never go wrong emulating McMurdo's style. He certainly demonstrates that more assertive hose colors really add character and punch to an outfit.

    Since your charcoal ensemble is such a respectable and neutral color, you can afford to experiment with the other elements.

    Andrew

  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jock Scot View Post
    Well, Ian Fleming would know. He had come across more than a few cads in his time.
    Aye indeed he did.

  7. #25
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    Jock and McMurdo have provided some great visual examples; both of them have helped shape how I approach wearing the kilt and I'll offer a couple of recent examples of daywear.

    As to the tie, I tend to do a half-windsor although until recently, I thought I was using a four in hand. I rarely use a full-windsor anymore unless I have a really long tie or a very wide collar spread.

    I also no longer worry much about matching and don't even worry about matching leathers anymore.

    IMG_20201017_144356.jpg

    IMG_20201023_165824.jpg

    Shane

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  9. #26
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    Whenever I wear a non-bowtie, I pretty much always go with a half Windsor. Dead simple and I love the symmetry. Plus you can easily loosen it with the knot in place, which means if you get it tied once you can quite often just leave the knot in it for the times when you need a tie in a hurry. In fact, it's so simple to use I've always kind of wondered why people would go with a clip-on tie instead (other than obvious use cases like law enforcement, etc.).

  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by KennethSime View Post
    A few weeks ago I picked up a second-hand Charcoal Arrochar Tweed Braemar jacket & waistcoat from a Scottish etsy store for an extremely reasonable price.
    Congrats! Very nice tweed jacket there.

    Many people are of the opinion that a charcoal grey kilt jacket is the most versatile kilt jacket one can have- I've heard many Scots as well as people in other countries say so. For sure the fact that black, white, and grey are non-colours mean they don't clash with anything, and a charcoal kilt jacket looks great with nearly any kilt.

    Quote Originally Posted by KennethSime View Post
    Am I getting close to semi-dress, day wear, or not quite either?
    "Semi-dress" is, as far as I know, a recent term with Highland Dress, and to me doesn't have much meaning in regards to the tradition as I feel it exists.

    Taking the long view, Highland Dress is an example of Punctuated Equilibrium: in between periods of stability it has undergone rapid and thorough change.

    So throughout the Victorian period Highland Dress had certain looks, then around World War One it went through a near-total transformation giving us what I consider modern traditional Highland Dress.

    The Highland Dress that emerged in the 1920s (and which is still being worn today by those who prefer it) had two categories: Day Dress (or Outdoor Dress, or Field Dress) and Evening Dress.

    Each had dedicated shoes, socks, sporrans, jackets, shirts, and ties. Thus there was very little overlap between the two modes, and no middle ground.

    The next period of change in Highland Dress started between 1970 and 1980 with the rise of the Kilt Hire Industry. Time will tell whether the attitudes and dress-items which appeared then will be accepted into the tradition.

    Kilt Hire, initially, was mostly about the black Prince Charlie and everything else had to be modified to go with it.

    Then the black Argyll became a common hire thing too. But where did the black Argyll fit? It didn't look quite like a Prince Charlie. Was the black Argyll dress? Or was it something else?

    With sporrans these things meant the creation of "semi-dress" ones. The sporranmakers took traditional leather Day sporrans (which from c1910 to c1970 had been brown) made them up in black leather. Then they started sticking on elements from Evening sporrans like chain tassels and /or silver Evening sporran tops.

    This new dress was immensely popular with Pipe Bands the world over: by the end of the 1980s nearly all competition Pipe Bands the world over went with black Argylls and black leather sporrans with silver Evening tops added.

    With hose, the Hire Industry introduced and popularised plain white hose for wear with the black Prince Charlie and Argyll.

    I started kiltwearing just before the Kilt Hire Industry transformation hit, and to me that look isn't traditional. None today can say how it will be regarded 50 years from now, whether the traditional dress of the post-WWI era will reassert itself, or the Kilt Hire look will become integrated into the tradition.

    Which is a very longwinded way of saying that, to me, tweed is tweed, and tweed is Day Dress.

    Barathea and velvet are Evening Dress, and by no means confined to black.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

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  12. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Richard View Post
    Which is a very longwinded way of saying that, to me, tweed is tweed, and tweed is Day Dress.
    Thank you Richard, both for long-winded explanation and the succinct summary.

    As a student of history, I appreciate both equally. :-)

  13. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Richard View Post
    ...........................

    Which is a very longwinded way of saying that, to me, tweed is tweed, and tweed is Day Dress.

    Barathea and velvet are Evening Dress, and by no means confined to black.
    I agree with much of what you have said OCR although I take issue with two of your points.

    Firstly, civilian pipe band attire trends is an issue entirely for bands and has nothing to do with general civilian kilt attire trends. Yes, those trends might run parallel with each other from time to time but that is all.

    Secondly, the idea that tweed is entirely for day attire mis represents what actually is and has been been done in the Scottish Highlands for certainly nearly(who can remember their first couple of years?) the last 80 years to my personal knowledge.

    What one wore in the evening, particularly if one was having guests ,or if one had an invitation to visit elsewhere has always been somewhat of a lottery to some and a complete mystery to others. However, what was/is worn depended how the invitation was worded and experience and this still holds true today.

    Two words were the key to how we dress if we were/are giving an invitation or receiving one for an evening event. “Supper” or “dinner” were/are the two critical indicators to the dress required. Supper requires tweed and dinner requires black tie etc.. Likewise, if the invitation was to pop round for a “wee drink with a few friends” then ones experience would come to the fore, but usually that would mean tweed, but .........not always! A fair indicator in this case is, if the invitation is verbal then tweed is the choice and if it’s written then black tie is the norm. If in doubt, it never hurts to ask!

    My circle of friends , as I still do myself on occasion, have no hesitation to ring round, or ask one another when meeting, what the "form" is at "Freddie and "Linda's do " or "my do" next week? Some might know, some might not, but by the "jungle telegraph" we all --------well, nearly always------end up wearing the hosts intended dress requirements.

    So all in all your blanket tweed for day attire etc., is far too much of a simplification, even in today’s rather more casual attention to attire details.
    Last edited by Jock Scot; 27th October 20 at 04:10 AM.
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jock Scot View Post
    What one wore in the evening, particularly if one was having guests ,or if one had an invitation to visit elsewhere has always been somewhat of a lottery to some and a complete mystery to others. However, what was/is worn depended how the invitation was worded and experience and this still holds true today.
    Here in California, amongst the youth, virtually all invitations are sent via SMS text message, which implies t-shirt and flip-flop.

    In all seriousness, I thank you Jock - as someone who never really dresses up for anything but weddings, this really helps expand my understanding.

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