Semi-Dress or Daywear?

[OC Richard]

Yes I'm also in California and as I've mentioned before these customs about dress for events are very rarely seen here.

Over the years I've attended a huge number of funerals and weddings (being a piper) and while some people dress for the occasion some others just dress how they always dress.

In any case, specifically about sporrans, here's a typical selection of Day sporrans seen from c1920 up to c1970. This particular catalogue is from the 1960s.



and here being worn, in the 1950s



And from the same 1960s catalogue their Evening sporrans.



What I've not seen either in photos or in catalogues until the rise of the kilt hire industry are sporrans like these below, the new category of "semi-dress" sporrans. Note that the traditional brown Day sporran has been done up in black, and Evening sporran elements have been grafted on.

It's my belief that these were specifically conjured to to hired along with the black Prince Charlie + white hose + black ghillies costume, and for Pipe Band use.



As I had said only time will tell whether these innovations will survive, and if so how they will be regarded.

The horse might have left the barn since a couple generations of kilt-wearers have come along who have only known civilian Highland Dress having three categories rather than the two it possessed c1900 to c1980.

But in my eye the "semi-dress" things look new and awkward and cobbled-together, not the elegant fully integrated feel of the two traditional categories.

[dcommini]

Here in California, amongst the youth, virtually all invitations are sent via SMS text message, which implies t-shirt and flip-flop.

In all seriousness, I thank you Jock - as someone who never really dresses up for anything but weddings, this really helps expand my understanding.

I have found that since joining this forum and learning of the different types of dress (formal, semiformal, etc) that I have started to dress better even when not wearing a kilt. Chances are that you might start to do the same.

[GG]

Hi Kenneth,

I just came across this thread. Let me start by saying that you look absolute good on all pictures, meaning on those in the album, too.

And in general: I have not been active here for quite some time. Five years, except for two contributions, it is. This, therefore, is sort of being back.

When I saw the headline I immediately thought of sporrans, daywear, or semi-dress. But you are thinking of the total appearance, I understand. And why not, even if not usual, use these terms about dressing?
So, what do you have in mind, when dressing in a jacket, perhaps a waistcoat, a tie, a kilt pin, flashes, and some shoes?

The shoes are only vaguely to see on your pictures, telling me that you are not focusing on them. Therefore, let me just say, that for casual kilt wear they are great, but for dress-up situations, they are not. For example, they are not appropriate for an evening at the opera house or concert hall.
But the rest of your outfit is. Even if some might believe, a semi-dress sporran should then have been a better choice.

Before you are reading further, I’m not Scottish, and I have no intentions to look Scottish, just being regarded a man in a kilt. My rules to follow are accordingly more about aesthetics in general, than those “established” ones for wearing a kilt and accessories the correct way.

To me correct rules are:
1. Each at its time
2. Color coordination
3. Simplicity in design

Ad 1) Accessorize the kilt in accordance with situation or task. That means, what would you wear together with fine shorts, just shorts, branded jeans, just jeans, a business suit, a tux, or white tee? The kilt itself should also match the situation, of course.
My advice: Use the same things on your upper body, and your feet as you should have been wearing for the purpose you have in mind.
Two or three years ago, I on the harbour of Split in Croatia, saw a man in a heavyweight, probably 8 yard-kilt, thick kilt hose, a black Argyle, shirt, and a tie. I cannot tell if he had also a waistcoat on. He drew attention to himself, but people soon looked away again, as did they feel pity for him. Like did I. And not because of the kilt, or a kilt, but because he looked out of place that hot, sunny day where other were in t-shirts and shorts and some women in short summerly skirts or dresses.

Ad 2) I have read before, like it was said at the beginning of this thread, that Scotsmen do not put the same attention to color coordination, as do Americans. Or Scandinavians like me.
I prefer red tie and red flashes. Or green tie and green flashes.

Ad 3) As you probably know, good Danish and Scandinavian design is based upon simplicity. That might be the reason why I consider less to be more. When it comes to kilt wearing, I for casual and smart casual wear, will never wear flashes, almost never a kit pin, never a bonnet, just an appropriate kilt. On most days kilt hose, often a belt, seldom a kilt pin. And for sporran I always and for all purposes prefer a plain leather sporran in a leather strap; semi-dress and dress sporrans being too much for my taste.


The way I was dressed in Split, Croatia, at 30 degrees Celsius or 86F. USA Kilts Casual.


Dressed up for the concert hall. With a semi-dress sporran.


For casual wear I will sometimes ditch the sporran.



5 yard kilt, Colquhoun tartan. Manhattan Upper West.

Now, if being around people, putting emphasis in that “kilt rules” must be strictly followed, follow them. Otherwise, the best about knowing rules often is, at least to my opinion. that you know when you are breaking them.

But even if following your own rules, do your best to always be aesthetically “correct”. What that means, is again subject to discussion. And most likely a function of culture and tradition.

Greg

[RichardtheLarge]

Jock,

If not the Windsor knot, which would be acceptable? I think a single Windsor knot looks unfinished, a double looks better, but am willing to try other knots.

DS

I’m partial to a half Windsor myself. The knot is a bit bigger, it is interesting and asymmetrical like a four in hand, and it probably won’t be confused with the much despised full Windsor.

[Bakuda]

Sorry to bring back an old thread, but I do like the look of that jacket and vest. I'm currently in the market for an Argyll and never thought about Etsy as a place to look. How has the outfit held up? Are there issues I should keep an eye out for when browsing on Etsy?

[KennethSime]

Sorry to bring back an old thread, but I do like the look of that jacket and vest. I'm currently in the market for an Argyll and never thought about Etsy as a place to look. How has the outfit held up? Are there issues I should keep an eye out for when browsing on Etsy?

No trouble at all! I have learned a few things since posting, and did create another thread showing the same jacket & waistcoat a few months later. I believe the jacket & waistcoat were made in Scotland, like the seller claimed, but I believe the buttons are imitation stag, and I think it's a bit of a "budget" jacket - as much as a Scottish-made tweed kilt jacket can be "budget." I'll admit that I haven't worn the jacket or waistcoat very often since purchasing - I seldom have the ability to dress nicely for a full day - work demands clothes that I can get dirty.

Here's the Etsy shop I used. I was very happy with Heather's pricing, and her prompt shipping. She's based in Scotland (somewhere in the Central Belt I believe), and seems to have a knack for finding nice pieces at reasonable prices. I still check her shop on a regular basis for new items. There are a few other shops which sell kilt-related items, but few Heather seems rot have the only shop which truly specializes in it.

I'd say this about Etsy: beware of the dealers who drop-ship from Pakistan, just like eBay - I believe there's one on Etsy called Celtic Attire, that shows up for any kilt-related searches. Adding the word "vintage" to your search often helps.

Another place you might consider is Ministry of Tartan. I haven't ordered from them yet, but they come highly recommended. Their selection of high-quality vintage kilts, jackets, and sporrans is really hard to beat.

[Bakuda]

No trouble at all! I have learned a few things since posting, and did create another thread showing the same jacket & waistcoat a few months later. I believe the jacket & waistcoat were made in Scotland, like the seller claimed, but I believe the buttons are imitation stag, and I think it's a bit of a "budget" jacket - as much as a Scottish-made tweed kilt jacket can be "budget." I'll admit that I haven't worn the jacket or waistcoat very often since purchasing - I seldom have the ability to dress nicely for a full day - work demands clothes that I can get dirty.

Here's the Etsy shop I used. I was very happy with Heather's pricing, and her prompt shipping. She's based in Scotland (somewhere in the Central Belt I believe), and seems to have a knack for finding nice pieces at reasonable prices. I still check her shop on a regular basis for new items. There are a few other shops which sell kilt-related items, but few Heather seems rot have the only shop which truly specializes in it.

I'd say this about Etsy: beware of the dealers who drop-ship from Pakistan, just like eBay - I believe there's one on Etsy called Celtic Attire, that shows up for any kilt-related searches. Adding the word "vintage" to your search often helps.

Another place you might consider is Ministry of Tartan. I haven't ordered from them yet, but they come highly recommended. Their selection of high-quality vintage kilts, jackets, and sporrans is really hard to beat.

Yeah, it really doesn't take long to start to recognize the drop-shipped items. The builds of those sporrans in particular are all similar. I'm having a harder time judging the jackets, though.

[KennethSime]

Yeah, it really doesn't take long to start to recognize the drop-shipped items. The builds of those sporrans in particular are all similar. I'm having a harder time judging the jackets, though.

When in doubt, stick with a reputable seller. I like USA Kilts a lot for new items, and their jackets are very nice (but will cost you $3-400). Ministry of Tartan is certainly a high-quality vendor for vintage pieces, which will cost more like $200.

[Tomo]

Hey Bakuda

One option might be McCalls - based in Scotland they have been in the game for 135 years and they have a few jackets on sale right now with a black argyle & waistcoat at £150 and some tweed options also from £150 (I have the pale green one).

https://www.mccalls.co.uk/products/j...s/sale-jackets

They ship internationally and whilst you would have to pay shipping (and maybe import duties) you won't have to pay VAT so the listed prices should be 20% less for international sales.

[Casaluz]

This thread is very helpful for a rookie, thank you