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  1. #21
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by jviss View Post
    Jock, what are you trying to say? The Montrose dublet is always wrong, is an object of ridicule, or something along these lines Who are these "in the know" folks to which you refer? You seem to know all the secret fashion rules and all, I'd really like you to inform us all.
    The Montrose jacket is a fine choice in the correct circumstances. I have no secret fashion rules, what I do have though are many years of experience of kilt wearing based on even more experience of my ancestors.

    Crikey! I think that some fourteen thousand posts on this website over many years has indeed been an effort to share and inform you all! Alright not all of my posts have contained useful information, but I would like to think that most of them have, in one way or another. What people do with that information and advice is entirely down to them.
    Last edited by Jock Scot; 2nd November 20 at 12:40 AM.
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jock Scot View Post
    The Montrose jacket is a fine choice in the correct circumstances. I have no secret fashion rules, what I do have though are many years of experience of kilt wearing based on even more experience of my ancestors.
    I think this is the thing to remember. The correct circumstances. I did love wearing the Montrose Doublet when I did, I have since gone to a different doublet that I like even more, but it was wonderful to wear it in a veritable sea of Prince Charlies. Having said that I would not wear it to the pub.

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  5. #23
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    Thank you Glen. We all need to remember that the kilt and associated attire is not a costume. It is made so for the theatre, TV shows and films for, I suppose, artistic effect, but in the real world kilt attire, is when all said and done the National Attire of a Nation and it is generally worn, even these days, with a certain amount of care and respect by those of that Nation. Even most of the "Tartan Army" with their rather outlandish version of kilt attire, which is deliberately more costume than anything else are well aware of what they are doing, rather than relying on accepted traditional practice.

    It must be difficult for those outwith Scotland, who rely on internet pictures, inaccurate advice from hire shops, romantic literature (including sales catalogs), tacky TV shows and films, to sort out the wheat from the chaff, particularly if a germ of a romantic and inaccurate interpretation of what is seen has taken root in the mind. This is why an international website such as this is so helpful. Even if it is sometimes hard going in persuading some minds that, sometimes, their preconcieved ideas are founded on a false premise.
    Last edited by Jock Scot; 3rd November 20 at 03:43 AM.
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

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  7. #24
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    Well, you know, Jock and others, fashion is not static. There is no single, correct etiquette for attire that remains the same over time. The modern kilt didn't even exist until about the end of the 18th century, and tartans associated with clans not until the mod to late 19th century. the Montrose doublet didn't exist until 1920 or so. It is a matter of fashion, which term connotes change. It's also a matter of perspective. Your view may seem entirely correct to you, but doesn't correspond to every Scotsman, every kilt wearer, who might see things as correct that you abhor. And, what's appropriate in one circumstance doesn't necessarily apply to all.


    Because of the popularity of the rather unique Highland dress, it belongs to the world now. There are certainly more people outside of Scotland wearing highland dress than in Scotland at this point, I so speculate.

    I have a book, Tartans and Highland Dress, by C.R. MacKinnon, 1960, that's a pretty comprehensive and apparently authoritative guide to highland dress, what's appropriate for day, evening, and so forth; but it's sixty years old, and I'm sure certain aspects have changed. Is there a current, contemporary guide? I am interested to know.

    I do value your advice, Jock, but I also enjoy a good discussion, even slightly adversarial, to reveal the underlying points.

  8. #25
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    Indeed some things have changed in kilt attire there is no doubt about that,............but..............BUT, many things with traditional kilt attire, particularly day attire, have changed little since, well, umm, say about about 1918. Evening attire, these days, is generally rather less ostentatious than it used to be. Probably, I suspect, led by cost considerations.

    Please dont take it for granted that every Scot is entirely happy that the kilt "belongs to the world now". Far from it.
    Last edited by Jock Scot; 3rd November 20 at 06:54 AM.
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

  9. #26
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    So, Jock, what's your preferred evening jacket?

  10. #27
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    At my age I have little wish to get involved with major formal evening attire events. No puff! I do still dress for dinner at home on occasion and for dinner with friends too, often after a days shooting. For that I wear a black barathea silver buttoned argyle(BBSBA), which also does for formal day attire(morning coat equivalent) as well.

    In the past at different times, I have happily worn a sheriffmuir, one black and one Rifleman green to the less common more top of the range formal events, but I have usually found, especially these days, a BBSBA is as versatile a formal jacket that I have ever needed. Many of my friends and acquaintances tend to go along that course too, but a PC is not an unusual sight.
    Last edited by Jock Scot; 3rd November 20 at 07:25 AM.
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

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  12. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jock Scot View Post
    At my age I have little wish to get involved with major formal evening attire events. No puff! I do still dress for dinner at home on occasion and for dinner with friends too, often after a days shooting. For that I wear a black barathea silver buttoned argyle(BBSBA), which also does for formal day attire(morning coat equivalent) as well.

    In the past at different times, I have happily worn a sheriffmuir, one black and one Rifleman green to the less common more top of the range formal events, but I have usually found, especially these days, a BBSBA is as versatile a formal jacket that I have ever needed. Many of my friends and acquaintances tend to go along that course too, but a PC is not an unusual sight.
    Yup.

    I own a dark tweed (most events) a BBSBA for formal events and a Sheriffmuir for over-the-top events. That's more than plenty for me. Frankly, I could probably survive without the Sheriffmuir, but I like the way its collar mirrors my clerical collar.
    Rev'd Father Bill White: Retired Parish Priest & Elementary Headmaster, lover of God, people (most of them!) dogs, joy, humour & clarity. Legion Padre, theologian, teacher, philosopher, linguist, dreamer, traditionalist, bon-vivant, encourager of hearts & souls & a firm believer in dignity, decency, & duty. A proud Canadian Sinclair.

  13. #29
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    I have to say that Day wear has changes little if at all in my lifetime, that is if we are talking Traditional Kilt wear here. I was lucky enough to get an "Argyll" jacket that dates back to 1894 a couple of years ago, here it is.



    The thing is that while this is 126 years old it still works in this day and age. Another example is an Argyll I got from 1931 so this one is 89 years old, there is very little difference between this jacket and waistcoat and one made this year, save perhaps the buttons and the fact that the older jacket has horsehair inside it.



    Contrast those with this modern jacket that I purchased a couple of years ago for a friends wedding and I think you'll see not much has changed in a hundred years or so

    Last edited by McMurdo; 3rd November 20 at 04:00 PM.

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  15. #30
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    Thanks for the replies all. McMurdo, those are fine looking jackets. I have a Lovat green argyle tweed jacket and waistcoat that are at least 55 years old. It was my father's. It's still in solid condition, never worn much at all over all those years, and was protected against moths. I like the genuine stag horn buttons and gauntlet sleeves, although it would be big job to short the sleeves even a bit, which I would prefer (I think it would best be done at the shoulder.) That said, it's fine as-is.

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