Does anyone have experience with Tartan Couture?

**Tomo** · 26th March 21, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

Until I joined this website some 12+ years ago I had no idea that there were such things as"belt' loops on a kilt. After wearing the kilt regularly for almost eight decades I have never felt the need for these loop things.

I suspect it's something else we can lay at the door of the hire industry - all the kilts (all made and sold/hired in Scotland BTW - so prob. not a N American thing as I have seen alluded to elsewhere) I have worn in last 20 odd years have had belt loops so it seams pretty standard - I'd bet at most places these days you need to ask not to have them...

**Jock Scot** · 26th March 21, 07:38 AM

You may be right Tomo, however should I ever feel the need to have a new kilt made-----I doubt I will----- I would expect the kilt to be built without loops and pleated to the sett, as a matter of course.

**KennethSime** · 26th March 21, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

Until I joined this website some 12+ years ago I had no idea that there were such things as"belt' loops on a kilt. After wearing the kilt regularly for almost eight decades I have never felt the need for these loop things.

My first 8-yard from Scotland didn't have sporran strap/belt loops, and didn't have a hip strap/buckle either. I found it strange when these later seemed to become the standard.

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

You may be right Tomo, however should I ever feel the need to have a new kilt made-----I doubt I will----- I would expect the kilt to be built without loops and pleated to the sett, as a matter of course.

Curious: why to the sett? Is that a matter of personal preference, or a tradition I'm unaware of?

**Jock Scot** · 26th March 21, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by KennethSime

My first 8-yard from Scotland didn't have sporran strap/belt loops, and didn't have a hip strap/buckle either. I found it strange when these later seemed to become the standard.

Curious: why to the sett? Is that a matter of personal preference, or a tradition I'm unaware of?

Certainly until recent times most kilt makers here pleated to the sett as a matter of course and if you wanted anything different then you had to ask. Most never asked so their kilt was pleated to the sett or sometimes just pleated to however the kilt cloth fell. I well remember discussing this very subject with my then kilt maker some 50+ years ago and I think I can almost quote his fierce words exactly:-

"Kilts pleated to the stripe are for the military and foreigners and if anyone, other than the military, asks me for a kilt to be made pleated to the stripe, then they can damn well go elsewhere!"

Actually, I don't recall any civilian ever discussing pleating options in those days, in fact nor do they today, in my experience..............apart from on this website.

In fact my last kilt that I had made is pleated to "however the cloth falls" system------I left no instruction on how I wanted it pleated, other than not to the stripe, as the tartan is a very large sett------- and the result is that the tartan is not centred to the middle of the back like many seem to insist on these days. I like it that way and besides, why worry? I can't see it!

**jhockin** · 26th March 21, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by KennethSime

You know, I've been back and forth on that. I've had folks tell me it'll damage the kilt, I've had other folks tell me that's what the loops are for and they've been doing it for 10+ years with no issue. I avoided it for quite some time, but have started running my belt through the loops lately because it then prevents the belt from riding up throughout the day.

Is there another secret to keeping the belt in place throughout the day?

I really only wear the belt when I'm wearing a t-shirt, but that is about half the time I wear a kilt (more often in Summer). If I've got a sweater or a waistcoat, no belt needed.

KennethSime: quote from Barb Tewksbury’s “The Art of Kiltmaking”, page 113 : “ The belt is purely decorative and is worn over the sporran strap. The top of the belt should be aligned with the top of the kilt. The belt should not be put through loops on the back of the kilt. What happens when a kilt belt is put through the loops on the back of the kilt? Bending and sitting cause the belt to pull up on the loops where they are stitched to the kilt.
Over time, this distorts the nice straight line of the tartan in the pleats at the attachment points of loops and also pulls the kilt hem up directly below the loops so that it no longer holds a straight bottom line. If you don’t believe this, take a surreptitious look at kilts at a Highland games. This is a particular problem with lighter weight kilts that are worn a lot (e.g., band kilts).”
In addition, the torque of the belt, pulling up on the attachment points of the loops puts strain on the stitching of the loops, with may stress the stitching in the fell. “Bottom line”: kilt belts with sewn traditional kilts are only decorative, so why take the risk of damage to your kilt?

**AbernethyCameron** · 27th March 21, 05:37 AM

To my mind belt loops are a fairly modern addition and as Tomo says are pretty standard now and you would definitely have to ask to not have them. They are, as the name suggests, for a belt. Sporrans were worn for an awful long time without any loops to support the straps, the sporran should stay in place without help of any belt loops.