Basics of vests

[Jock Scot]

Interesting. In American English, I would call that a "tank top". It would also sometimes be colloquially called a "wifebeater" shirt - rather horrible name, but it's a term that does get used for them quite often over here (etymology apparently stems from news coverage of a court case in 1947). But I would never consider that a "vest". Usually "vest" and "waistcoat" are used synonimously.

Separated by a common language, indeed. Always interesting to see the drifting.

A vest in my language is usually the term used for an undergarment, but I have had my tailor use the term "vest" on occasion when we have been discussing a waistcoat.

I am a great fan of short/long sleeved pullovers when worn with the kilt for everyday wear.



When necessary I shun the tweed kilt jacket and brogues, but the waistcoat pockets are very handy for important things like a spool of cast(leader) and a wee box of flies.

[Pleater]

And I'd call the white underwear a singlet as a vest would have short sleeves and possibly be higher at the neck with a placket at the front to fasten it.
A tank top is what launched me into the making of garments after buying a knitting machine, a sleeveless pullover with a deep U shaped neck - made in lurid colours which I produced by the dozen and sold for two pounds, a profit of one pound fifty over the price of the yarn.

There is an old song which has been going through my mind ever since I read an earlier post 'I can't do my bally bottom button up' - sigh.

A waistcoat was a vital accoutrement when I played guitar, with picks, plectrums and capos in the pockets - made in the brightest of colours and intended to be on show - so no satin back, just solid psychedelia and fully lined.

I notice that the image on the box of oats shows the upper part of the kilt not fitted tightly onto the body but a rather more / \ - I wonder if it is the result of a shorter fell, or simply being less closely fitted - though it is, of course, only an image, not reality.

[neloon]

The Scots word for vest/undershirt is semmit.
https://www.dsl.ac.uk/entry/snd/semm...0o'%20wear.

Alan

[Joshua]

I have an egregiously long torso with short legs, so a normal length waistcoat works fairly well for me. When, historically, I've donned kilt-length waistcoats it's required effort to keep my shirt from peeking out around the edges (my kilts are standard rise of about 2-3cm above my bellybutton, a military style kilt would likely rectify this). However if you aren't built like a Neanderthal like I am; you can try stitching the shoulders to increase the cut of the waistcoat.

Included is one of the only shots I have of me wearing "waistcoat only" this waistcoat is full (suit) length, finished back and front (it's not satin-backed or adjustable). And yes, this was a St. Patrick's street party circa 2017 or 2018.

[MichiganKyle]

I have an egregiously long torso with short legs, so a normal length waistcoat works fairly well for me. When, historically, I've donned kilt-length waistcoats it's required effort to keep my shirt from peeking out around the edges (my kilts are standard rise of about 2-3cm above my bellybutton, a military style kilt would likely rectify this). However if you aren't built like a Neanderthal like I am; you can try stitching the shoulders to increase the cut of the waistcoat.

Oh, hadn't thought about that. That would make shortening a waistcoat much easier. I'm built the opposite way - long legs, short torso and arms.

[Tobus]

Given the wide array of body shapes/proportions combined with the wide array of available waistcoat cuts, there really is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all answer.

I am on the short-torso side, so a standard waistcoat is usually too long for me to wear with a kilt unless I alter it. But I've noticed that many vintage waistcoats that were made to go with kilt jackets are often too short! Unless I'm wearing a high-rise kilt, these vintage waistcoats end up riding up above the top of the kilt at the sides and back. For that reason, I can't seem to make it work wearing a waistcoat without a jacket. I tried it once, and spent all day tugging at the back of my waistcoat to keep it below the top of my kilt and trying to avoid looking like a numpty.

But beyond that, I also tend to agree with the more traditional view that a waistcoat is not really intended to be a stand-alone outer garment. The satin (or silk, in rare cases) back is not meant to be seen. They use that material on the back to decrease bulk under the jacket, as well as decrease friction. The decreased friction provides ease of movement and minimises bunching. And the adjuster belt, being connected at the seam between the satin and front material, is meant to be hidden under the jacket. For these reasons, a waistcoat with a satin back just isn't traditionally supposed to be worn with the back exposed; it is obviously designed to be under a jacket. I do realise that modern society doesn't seem to care, but it always seems like a bit of a fashion faux-pas when I see it done. A waistcoat worn sans jacket reminds me of a waiter or someone in a pipe band. If I were going to try wearing one without a jacket, it would have to be the type with the same material on the back and no adjuster belt.

So, for me, I think a waistcoat is best worn with a jacket and not by itself. My first preference is for it to match the kilt jacket material, although using a constrasting colour and material can be pulled off quite well if done smartly.

As for specific styles or cuts, I wouldn't get hung up on one particular maker's names. Waistcoat styles are virtually infinite. Any waistcoat can be altered at the front/bottom to provide clearance for your sporran or give personal flair, or change out the buttons for your preference. The less alterable items are pockets/flaps. Modern makers tend not to put flaps on the pockets unless you go a custom route, but these can make a ho-hum waistcoat into something really special.

[Brian Rose]

The "two peoples separated by a common language thing" strikes again. To find Pleater's sleeveless pullover on this side of the pond, one has to search for a "sweater vest" .

[OC Richard]

In the UK a vest is typically an undershirt or sports top...

What I wonder is when that change in meaning occurred.

Because I have several catalogues and books by Scottish authors and printed in Scotland from around 1900 to the 1930s and they use the terms "vest" and "waistcoat" interchangeably for the same garment, the waistcoat that is worn with a jacket.

So as long as we realise that the semantic shift of the word "vest" in Scotland is relatively recent. (About the former use in England I have no idea.)

[KennethSime]

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful contributions. I've been curious about the subject of "trouser-length" waistcoat for some time. I rarely have occasion for a jacket, and I think I could get a heck of a lot of mileage out of a green or brown tweed vest. The bespoke kilt jacket makers are rather expensive, so I've resisted ordering a second vest thus far. I'm 6'2, my kilts are 24-26", I think I can probably get away with a "normal" size vest, say something like this.

I'll be sure to report back with my findings!

[gsmacleod]

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful contributions. I've been curious about the subject of "trouser-length" waistcoat for some time. I rarely have occasion for a jacket, and I think I could get a heck of a lot of mileage out of a green or brown tweed vest. The bespoke kilt jacket makers are rather expensive, so I've resisted ordering a second vest thus far. I'm 6'2, my kilts are 24-26", I think I can probably get away with a "normal" size vest, say something like this.

I'll be sure to report back with my findings!

No idea of your current restrictions but if you're able to do some shopping locally, it might be worth a trip to some thrift stores. I've gotten a couple of nice all wool waistcoats for next to nothing including one very nice tweed.

Shane