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  1. #11
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    I will point out that the Prince Charlie Coatee was, from its introduction around 1900 up until the Rise Of The Kilt Hire Industry in the 1970s, reckoned to be an Evening Dress jacket and was intended to be worn, and was worn, following the customary Evening Dress norms of the period.

    That is:
    -kilt
    -Evening Dress jacket
    -white shirt
    -bow tie, or lace jabot
    -Evening Dress sporran (seal w/ silver top, or alternatively long white hair w/ silver top)
    -tartan or diced full hose
    -buckled brogues

    The pipers below wearing Prince Charlie Coatees are in ordinary Evening Dress from the knees up, but in ordinary Day Dress from the knees down, as Day and Evening dress were done c1910-1970

    Last edited by OC Richard; 12th March 21 at 08:31 AM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Richard View Post
    I will point out that the Prince Charlie Coatee was, from its introduction around 1900 up until the Rise Of The Kilt Hire Industry in the 1970s, reckoned to be an Evening Dress jacket and was intended to be worn, and was worn, following the customary Evening Dress norms of the period.

    That is:
    -kilt
    -Evening Dress jacket
    -white shirt
    -bow tie, or lace jabot
    -Evening Dress sporran (seal w/ silver top, or alternatively long white hair w/ silver top)
    -tartan or diced full hose
    -buckled brogues
    Well yes and no. We need to remember that not all Evening Dress events are the same. In my experience since 1940, well ok, a couple of years later as I don't really remember my first few years. For example dressing for dinner at home really did/does not require the full rig compared to a dinner dance---invitation only---- at the local Baronial Hall.

    Anyway, I am not sure if shortages and a make do with what you have got attitude of WW2 had an influence here, I suspect it did. Since that time, the lesser black tie events did/do not require "tartan or diced hose" or " buckled brogues" and it was/is not unusual for rather less gaudy dress sporrans to be worn. I would suggest a certain amount of common sense and practicality has prevailed since that time.

    So for some of the less smart dress occasions these days, well polished oxfords, plain coloured hose(apart from white!!!) and rather less ornate sporrans are perfectly acceptable.
    Last edited by Jock Scot; 16th March 21 at 01:27 PM.
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

  4. #13
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    My first impression is that it’s hard to imagine a size short jacket fitting a person of your height—isn’t the coatee too short in the sleeves?

    As for the tails, I would suggest at a minimum that they should cover the fell in the back (the stitched section above the hanging pleats) with the kilt worn at your natural waist. Any higher than this and it will certainly look like it’s the wrong size.

  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Richard View Post
    I will point out that the Prince Charlie Coatee was, from its introduction around 1900 up until the Rise Of The Kilt Hire Industry in the 1970s, reckoned to be an Evening Dress jacket and was intended to be worn, and was worn, following the customary Evening Dress norms of the period.

    That is:
    -kilt
    -Evening Dress jacket
    -white shirt
    -bow tie, or lace jabot
    -Evening Dress sporran (seal w/ silver top, or alternatively long white hair w/ silver top)
    -tartan or diced full hose
    -buckled brogues

    The pipers below wearing Prince Charlie Coatees are in ordinary Evening Dress from the knees up, but in ordinary Day Dress from the knees down, as Day and Evening dress were done c1910-1970

    Any idea what is happening with John Burgess’ hose? I’ve never seen a pair with vertical stripes before.

    Thank you for sharing this in any case—it looks like The ‘70s meets Highlandwear.

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardtheLarge View Post
    My first impression is that it’s hard to imagine a size short jacket fitting a person of your height—isn’t the coatee too short in the sleeves?

    As for the tails, I would suggest at a minimum that they should cover the fell in the back (the stitched section above the hanging pleats) with the kilt worn at your natural waist. Any higher than this and it will certainly look like it’s the wrong size.
    The simple and sadly expensive solution, is to get a bespoke jacket made by someone who knows what he is doing.
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jock Scot View Post
    The simple and sadly expensive solution, is to get a bespoke jacket made by someone who knows what he is doing.
    My grandmother had two sayings:
    “Buy the best, cry once.”
    and
    “If you have to ask how much it costs, you can’t afford it.”

    She was right, you know.

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  9. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardtheLarge View Post
    My grandmother had two sayings:
    “Buy the best, cry once.”
    and
    “If you have to ask how much it costs, you can’t afford it.”

    She was right, you know.
    Indeed she was and is still!
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

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  11. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardtheLarge View Post
    Any idea what is happening with John Burgess’ hose? I’ve never seen a pair with vertical stripes before.
    He was quite the dresser, and I'm sure those were bespoke hose.

    My theory is that they were knit to resemble a regimental stripe (as seen on neckties)

    Last edited by OC Richard; 20th March 21 at 05:15 PM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

  12. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Richard View Post
    He was quite the dresser, and I'm sure those were bespoke hose.

    My theory is that they were knit to resemble a regimental stripe (as seen on neckties)

    Wow, that tie you posted is incredible. And would be beautiful with my Colquhoun ancient tartan. Any idea where it's from ...?

  13. #20
    Grump is offline Oops, it seems this member needs to update their email address
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    Interesting posts. I can't help but think that winged shirts were an excuse for having run out of material to make a proper collar. Almost as bad as shirt showing above the buckle which may have been caused by that extra push to make a stiff reed sound high A properly!
    Piping Is Life!....The rest doesn't matter.

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