P.C. jacket questions

[Brian Rose]

Somewhere my wife saw a P.C. and thought they looked really sharp. Courtesy of the web,Etsy, and Royal Mail, I received a black P.C. and waistcoat as a Christmas gift. Now I've got a couple of questions.

First question. I found no country of origin on the labels. I know that in the U.S., it's supposed to have that on the label. I don't know what the U.K. rules are. The label just says A.C.S. besides the material listings. All I found on the web were EBAY U.K. listings. They only lead to a deleted listing.

Second question. Once upon a time, I was a tad over six foot tall and usually wore a tall Saxon jacket as I was long waisted. As the jacket was used, one gets what's available. She got a 46 Short. Now, older and a wee bit shorter, I need to ask how it should fit. As a P.C. has sort of tails in the back, where should they fall. As a kilt is worn higher, the front of the jacket seems to be fine.

Now I'll just need a better shirt- and a place to wear it to.

[McMurdo]

Here are a few photos that might help you visualize how a Prince Charlie should fit. Basically the front is higher than with an Argyll jacket, having said that, as the traditional kilt is worn at the natural waist a higher front of the jacket is of little consequence.







This one was my first PC, as you will notice you can see a bit of my shirt front above the kilt, ideally you would not see this, however there is a learning curve and I was learning at the time, in fact this was a Christmas present from my family. I made the mistake of lending it out at it never returned.

[AbernethyCameron]

ACS supply the rental market here, so your jacket is ex-hire, but will be good quality.

https://www.acsclothing.co.uk/rental/menswear-rental/

[OC Richard]

I picked up an ex-hire Prince Charlie several years ago labelled ACS and the quality, fabric, and fit seem good.

I've only worn it two, perhaps three, times in those years.

In any case with Prince Charlie waistcoats and any other waistcoat one does see white shirt sticking out fairly often, usually not due to the waistcoat or the kilt being too short but the kilt being worn too low.

Though here in the USA there's been an inexplicable trend of men ordering their kilts shorter and shorter. Men of average height are ordering kilts in lengths that in the old days would have been for very short men, or for youths. These men have the goal of having the top of the kilt a couple inches lower than what's traditional. When paired with a traditional-length waistcoat it leaves exposed shirt.



About the tails in the back of a Prince Charlie, I've never been aware that they fall to any particular place. I'm more aware of how long the waistcoat is in relation to the top of the kilt, and how long the jacket is in relation to the waistcoat.

Here's a 1939 illustration from a catalogue from one of the firms making Prince Charlies at that time, you can see the relationship between the bottom of the jacket and the bottom of the waistcoat. Seems that the waistcoat is very slightly shorter than the jacket (you don't want the waistcoat to be peeking out all around).



It's interesting that this 1936 catalogue doesn't show black Evening jackets. I love this Prince Charlie, more formal, with tartan waistcoat, lace jabot, and castellated hose.

[gsmacleod]

I've never really worried about where the tails fall do make sure that there is no shirt showing between kilt and waistcoat/coatee.

My PC is a little shorter than I would like but as long as my kilt doesn't slide down, I can keep any shirt from showing through the gap.

IMG_20190821_134815~2.jpg

This one is from my wedding day; you can see no shirt but there is the belt that the hire shop insisted should be worn (that and the cream hose are my regrets from that day!)

NN.jpg

Shane

[Steve Ashton]

I find that there are fewer and fewer black tie, tuxedo appropriate, events left to attend. The kilt community is one of the holdovers where you see formal wear worn. Perhaps due to all those who have and still want an excuse to wear their Prince Charlie coatees.
I know that I have been to many kilt events where Prince Charlie's were worn. But these were not actually black tie, formal events. For example a Burns Dinner where along with some dressed in Prince Charlies you will also see Argyles with long ties, shirts and vest, sweaters or jumpers and other levels of dress. In a few, the Prince Charlies sort of stuck out as the exception among the others.
I attend an annual Highland Games and have asked a few who wear Prince Charlie to a daytime, outdoor event why they chose that form of dress. "It's traditional" is the most common reply. I suspect that this would not be how those who lived in the time and place that their "traditional" is supposed to emulate would have dressed.

So if you own a Prince Charlie and want to wear it for your own reasons, then go for it.

But please, do not be influenced by the horrid rental pictures you see all over the web. The secret to wearing a Prince Charlie is not the jacket, but wearing the kilt in the manner it was designed to be worn.

Here is how I dressed to the only kilt event I have ever attended, where the invitation specified "Black Tie with full ribbons and medals".

[Jock Scot]

I find that there are fewer and fewer black tie, tuxedo appropriate, events left to attend. The kilt community is one of the holdovers where you see formal wear worn. Perhaps due to all those who have and still want an excuse to wear their Prince Charlie coatees.
I know that I have been to many kilt events where Prince Charlie's were worn. But these were not actually black tie, formal events. For example a Burns Dinner where along with some dressed in Prince Charlies you will also see Argyles with long ties, shirts and vest, sweaters or jumpers and other levels of dress. In a few, the Prince Charlies sort of stuck out as the exception among the others.
I attend an annual Highland Games and have asked a few who wear Prince Charlie to a daytime, outdoor event why they chose that form of dress. "It's traditional" is the most common reply. I suspect that this would not be how those who lived in the time and place that their "traditional" is supposed to emulate would have dressed.

So if you own a Prince Charlie and want to wear it for your own reasons, then go for it.

But please, do not be influenced by the horrid rental pictures you see all over the web. The secret to wearing a Prince Charlie is not the jacket, but wearing the kilt in the manner it was designed to be worn.

Here is how I dressed to the only kilt event I have ever attended, where the invitation specified "Black Tie with full ribbons and medals".

Exactly so. Well said.

[Brian Rose]

I did run across a wing collar shirt at a thrift store. I suspect it's from a tuxedo as the front of the shirt is not flat. Checking the web, they are described as pleats. Is that typical of wing collar shirts?

[Steve Ashton]

The pleated front tux shirts are one of those things that you hate or you simply wear because that is what the salesperson at the rental shop told you was what they had.

I have never and will never wear a pleated front tux shirt. I was taught that simple equals elegant and timeless. Pleats are just to close to the ruffles of the '70's

Wing collar or stand-and-fall collar is a bit of "what ever".

But what differentiates a tux shirt from a dress shirt is that a tux shirt has no buttons. The front uses studs and the cuffs, cufflinks that match the studs. (keep your fancy birthday cufflinks for your French cuffed dress shirts.)

[FossilHunter]

I did run across a wing collar shirt at a thrift store. I suspect it's from a tuxedo as the front of the shirt is not flat. Checking the web, they are described as pleats. Is that typical of wing collar shirts?

Pleated tuxedo shirts are a perfectly acceptable choice. Wide pleats have been used in tuxedo shirts since the 30s and the more common narrower pleats since the 40s. These would be shirts with a turn down collar.

https://www.gentlemansgazette.com/tu...tuxedo-shirts/

The wing collared, pleated shirt is, however, an invention of the 70s.