The joys and dangers of Ebay pipes

[OC Richard]

Lovely pre-WWII Lawries going very cheaply.

I'm a big Lawrie person, I've owned around a dozen Lawries from 1905 to the 1970s and all have been great pipes.

Lawrie was known to mix two different forms of plastic, Catalin which turns butterscotch and some other plastic that doesn't. This particular set is all mounted in the light-coloured plastic except for the bushes which are Catalin.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pre-WWII-RG....c100010.m2109

Also super cheap are these Catalin-mounted Gillanders & McLeod set. I have a band-mate who plays a set just like this, they sound super.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gillander-A...4AAOSwocRgfhLo

Here's a Piob Mhor (Blairgowrie) set with issues. Not only does it have that marbilised imitation ivory with loads of cracks, also the wood seems to have a number of cracks. (Not that cracks in the wood bother me that much, I used to play a c1860 set of Glens that had 17 cracks in the Bass Drone stock, all sealed with glue, no leaks.)

This set is stamped 488 which is Piob Mhor's code meaning April 1988.

I recently went down the Piob Mhor rabbit-hole, doing some reading, and exchanging emails with their main maker Michael Phee who made pipes for Piob Mhor from 1986 to 2008. He now has his own pipemaking firm in Australia.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Scottish-Gr...QAAOSwxbJgeLMq

[imrichmond]

Yes, that is a lovely set of Gillanders & McLeod. On behalf of a bandmate, I purchased an identical set a few years ago from a seller in Germany. I personally have two sets of G & M pipes, both made in the mid to late 1970s. One is half catalin and nickel with full beaded combing and was purchased used about 7 years ago, the other, which I bought used in 1977 or 78 has ABW projecting mounts, stainless steel ferrules and catalin ring caps and bushes with the same flat combing as the ebay set. I'm a big fan of G & M pipes. I played the flat combed set in a top grade 1 band for a number of years.

[WalesLax]

These mystery pipes had a really big bid on them that disappeared.... then another big bid or two that also disappeared, so I guess in some ways, the mystery continues to grow.

Others that I know have reached out to the seller with questions, and from what I gather, the seller is unwilling (possibly unable, but at best unable in a very gruff way) to answer them. They are dirty, they were found in a barn or an attic, no idea if they were played, no idea how old they are... I think someone is going to have a fun time buying, cleaning, and revealing them, and we will all either get to bask in their glory or get a good laugh at their expense!

Rob

[OC Richard]

These mystery pipes had a really big bid on them that disappeared.... then another big bid or two that also disappeared, so I guess in some ways, the mystery continues to grow.

I think they're Pakistani. What's so very strange is the evidence of being spray-painted black, you can see the dusting of over-spray on most of the imitation ivory parts.

There's a closeup of a chip in the wood and it looks like Sheesham wood underneath.

In any case here's a very old set of what we call "Scottish smallpipes" today. That term wasn't used by the Scottish pipemakers until quite recently. Throughout the 19th century and up through most of the 20th the Scottish pipemakers called them "miniature Highland bagpipes, or chamber pipes".

https://www.ebay.com/itm/22443677556....c100667.m2042

The set appears to be by Glen Edinburgh. The drones have the classic eggcup Glen style mounts, and the typical German Silver open rings on the drone ends (the bass ring is missing).

However the stocks are by RG Lawrie Glasgow.

About the chanter who can say, there's only one photo. I can make out either HO or HU, which narrows it down quite a bit!

HO:
THOMAS GLEN EDINBURGH
THOW DUNDEE
THOMAS BEATTIE EDINBURGH
PIOB MHOR (the chanter looks too old for them)

HU:
HUTCHEON EDINBURGH
HUGH MACPHERSON EDINBURGH

both HO and HU:
CHISHOLM & HUNTER GLASGOW

[OC Richard]

This lovely set of Lawries will apparently go quite cheaply.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/32458056129...temCondition=4

I'm a big Lawrie person. I know the later ones have a spotty reputation, but my personal experience with them, from c1905 through the 1920s and 1940s up to the 1970s has always been great.

This set shows the typical Lawrie thing of mismatched imitation ivory, the set is mostly the stuff (which I don't know the name of) that stays an ivory colour forever, it seems, but has Catalin bushes.

Then there's these Lawries which just came up, full Catalin. We can't see the bushes, they might be matching Catalin, that non-yellowing stuff, or real ivory.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/37355593525...temCondition=4

[OC Richard]

There's a piper in Scotland who has put up some nice old pipes for reasonable prices.

I'm especially attracted to this set, because I have a set that looks remarkably similar, which is a great-playing old set.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/31351196031...4AAOSwVulgiwWy

EDIT: after talking to the owner of the above set, and examining my set more closely, it appears that both sets have traditional German Silver (cupro-nickel) rolled seamed ferrules. My set has one replacement Stainless Steel tubing ferrule.

Both he and I are convinced our pipes are by the same maker, we just don't know who!

The same seller as above has a silver-mounted Naill set up at an amazingly low price.

In any case, here's a Dunbar polypenco/delrin for well under $500 but the seller has had only one prior transaction on Ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/36338256412...gAAOSwXXJgehDt

[OC Richard]

Here's an example of a set of pipes obviously being Pakistani, though the photos don't know us much of the bagpipe itself. People are bidding up the price. I suspect that they don't know that the pipes are Pakistani.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/27482125179...temCondition=4

When you can clearly see the wood parts you look for poor combing, for a lack of wood grain (Pakistani pipes are often painted black), the typical dull aluminium mounts, or light brown Sheesham wood showing through here and there.

But sometimes the photos don't show any of these things! In such cases we examine the ancillary things such as the bag, bag-cover, cords, and mouthpiece.

Mouthpiece: the typical Pakistani all-white plastic mouthpiece which is quite rare on legit bagpipes.

Bag: we can just see enough of the bag to see that it's the typical Pakistani leather bag, made inside-out and thus looking shiny (legit bags have the shiny side in).

Bag-cover: the typical dull-looking Royal Stewart cover which has long been standard on Pakistani pipes.

Inner cover: almost never seen on modern legit bagpipes but long standard on Pakistani pipes was this off-white muslin inner cover.

Cords: here it looks like only half of the cord remains. Still, it has a Pakistani look.

Here's another obviously Pakistani set. Once again the pipes are painted black.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/28432058537...temCondition=4

Here the pipes themselves declare their origin, in the case the engraving on the shiny metal mounts (which, by the way, are probably brass which as been chrome or nickel plated). Engraved Pakistani pipes always seem to have that sketchy thistle pattern.

True that the thistle engraving on some vintage Lawrie (Glasgow) pipes wasn't all that much better! But still the Lawrie and Pakistani thistle engraving is easy enough to distinguish.

Note that the pipes have the all-bead turning style that Starck (London) used for his Brian Boru pipes. This turning style is extremely rare on UK-made pipes but quite common on Pakistani pipes. One of the Sialkot makers must have got hold of a Starck Brian Boru set, because several Pakistani makers make the keyed Brian Boru chanters too.

I'm glad the seller of this set didn't do what sellers usually do: look at the name stamped on a chanter that's with the pipes, and claim that the entire bagpipe was made by that maker. Pakistani pipes (which are nearly always un-marked) that happen to have a legit stamped practice chanter in the box will nearly always be claimed to have been made by the maker of the practice chanter.

Happily no-one is biting on this set, which at $300 is overpriced for the wall-hanger that it is.

Keeping with the Pakistani theme, here's a varnished sheesham wood set, the set the Pakistani catalogues call "cheap quality" (truth in advertising!)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/35345485144...temCondition=4

The price is preposterous. I've seen these pipes listed for as low as $30 direct from the Pakistani makers. $650 would get you two dozen sets.

Anyhow this set is the Poster Child for the obvious Sialkot-made bagpipe in every way.

[OC Richard]

If John Walsh is indeed scaling back his pipe making, sets like this will gain in value, I suspect.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12474830351...temCondition=4

[WalesLax]

Here's an example of a set of pipes obviously being Pakistani, though the photos don't know us much of the bagpipe itself. People are bidding up the price. I suspect that they don't know that the pipes are Pakistani.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/27482125179...temCondition=4

When you can clearly see the wood parts you look for poor combing, for a lack of wood grain (Pakistani pipes are often painted black), the typical dull aluminium mounts, or light brown Sheesham wood showing through here and there.

But sometimes the photos don't show any of these things! In such cases we examine the ancillary things such as the bag, bag-cover, cords, and mouthpiece.

Mouthpiece: the typical Pakistani all-white plastic mouthpiece which is quite rare on legit bagpipes.

Bag: we can just see enough of the bag to see that it's the typical Pakistani leather bag, made inside-out and thus looking shiny (legit bags have the shiny side in).

Bag-cover: the typical dull-looking Royal Stewart cover which has long been standard on Pakistani pipes.

Inner cover: almost never seen on modern legit bagpipes but long standard on Pakistani pipes was this off-white muslin inner cover.

Cords: here it looks like only half of the cord remains. Still, it has a Pakistani look.

Here's another obviously Pakistani set. Once again the pipes are painted black.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/28432058537...temCondition=4

Here the pipes themselves declare their origin, in the case the engraving on the shiny metal mounts (which, by the way, are probably brass which as been chrome or nickel plated). Engraved Pakistani pipes always seem to have that sketchy thistle pattern.

True that the thistle engraving on some vintage Lawrie (Glasgow) pipes wasn't all that much better! But still the Lawrie and Pakistani thistle engraving is easy enough to distinguish.

Note that the pipes have the all-bead turning style that Starck (London) used for his Brian Boru pipes. This turning style is extremely rare on UK-made pipes but quite common on Pakistani pipes. One of the Sialkot makers must have got hold of a Starck Brian Boru set, because several Pakistani makers make the keyed Brian Boru chanters too.

I'm glad the seller of this set didn't do what sellers usually do: look at the name stamped on a chanter that's with the pipes, and claim that the entire bagpipe was made by that maker. Pakistani pipes (which are nearly always un-marked) that happen to have a legit stamped practice chanter in the box will nearly always be claimed to have been made by the maker of the practice chanter.

Happily no-one is biting on this set, which at $300 is overpriced for the wall-hanger that it is.

Keeping with the Pakistani theme, here's a varnished sheesham wood set, the set the Pakistani catalogues call "cheap quality" (truth in advertising!)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/35345485144...temCondition=4

The price is preposterous. I've seen these pipes listed for as low as $30 direct from the Pakistani makers. $650 would get you two dozen sets.

Anyhow this set is the Poster Child for the obvious Sialkot-made bagpipe in every way.

I haven't had time to play on EBay in a while, and I really don't go on Facebook anymore, so both 'for-sale' and 'terrible for-sale' bagpipes slipped my mind. It's like Michael Corleone said, "Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!" In many ways, that is such a great phrase to explain bagpiping and why I stick with it.

Anyway, I was shocked to see that 11 people had bid on:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/27482125179...temCondition=4

I emailed the seller for more pictures, and your assessment is spot-on. Much, much lighter wood on the inside, indicating both low quality wood and the likeliness that these pipes will never play actual music.

Well, now that I am back in, I will have to take a trip further down the rabbit hole I opened on EBay. I will certainly let you all know if I find anything good or "good."

Rob

[OC Richard]

Yes all the usual red flags were there with that set!

Now for something completely different, a very nice new set, purchased but never played, for much less than it would cost new.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/17479257486...8AAOSwFdlgusgT

As it happens this set is only an hour's drive for me, so it might be possible to see in it person and pick it up.

I think I'll pass, as I'm well served by my two vintage sets.

Now this is odd, a seller with two listings of Dunbar sets which use the same photos

https://www.ebay.com/itm/13378244821...IAAOSwf0Zgu4gP

https://www.ebay.com/itm/13378244821...IAAOSwf0Zgu4gP

I've messaged the seller asking if it's the same instrument listed twice, or two different bagpipes.