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  1. #1
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    Truly Mixed Emotions Meeting Another Gent in a Kilt

    So, I live in a most remote Arizona city up in the canyonlands. Think I've met one other local who wore kilts a few years back. Occasionally meet a kilted tourist.

    This past weekend I was at our local Walmart and ran into a gent in a kilt. At first felt bad I wasn't kilted myself, but wanted to support him so I complimented him and said I often wore kilts myself.

    He wasn't much interested. He was an obese bear of a man - probably in his late 30s - who presented a very disheveled, scruffy, appearance. Especially his kilt.

    Didn't recognize the tartan, a bright blue tartan of some sort. A wrap around Velcro fastening kilt. The way he wore it the kilt was all askew and rumpled. The rumpled part fit with the rest of his clothing and "mountain man visiting the city" appearance.

    I had thought about pitching X Marks to him but he obviously didn't care about kilting beyond comfort for himself.

    So, it was good to see a fellow gent in a kilt, but sad that he seemed to disrespect the kilt.

    since he said he wore the kilt for comfort and as needed one of those in-store sit down electric shopping carts. Perhaps he also used a wheelchair.

    As he drove off in the power cart I found myself hoping he was from out-of-town...

    And found myself appreciating this rabble that respects the kilt.
    Last edited by Riverkilt; 11th April 21 at 08:27 PM.
    Ol' Macdonald himself, a proud son of Skye and Cape Breton Island
    Lifetime Member STA. Two time winner of Utilikiltarian of the Month.
    "I'll have a kilt please, a nice hand sewn tartan, 16 ounce Strome. Oh, and a sporran on the side, with a strap please."

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  3. #2
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    We on X Marks are often derided on other sites as being too traditional and stuck-up about how we dress.

    OK, I can see that. Fine, there is room in this world for all types and styles.

    I do often wish that there were others like myself on the forum who are not into wearing kilts for the history and heritage aspect. But by this time I'm pretty used to dressing my way and being the only one. I get to be looked down upon by the "uber-traditionalists" and the "uber-macho" groups equally.

    But at least I present my myself in public with a bit of pride in how I look and with respect to the lady next to me. And in all honesty, I feel that that is what makes X Marks different, unique and why I like our community.
    Steve Ashton
    Forum Owner


  4. #3
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    Everyone is responsible for their own agency. I don't get upset when folks dress horribly in pants, buttoned shirts, etc. Why should I care if they wear a kilt poorly? That has no reflection on me, nor should it. If a gentleman was at a Scottish function, and clearly, they meant to dress correctly, but missed the mark on something, I may politely give some advice; no one going to a dressed up event wants to feel embarrassed. But whether or not they choose to take that advice... once again... a poorly turned out fellow, is no reflection on me.

    Frank
    Drink to the fame of it -- The Tartan!
    Murdoch Maclean

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  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Ashton View Post
    We on X Marks are often derided on other sites as being too traditional and stuck-up about how we dress.

    OK, I can see that. Fine, there is room in this world for all types and styles.

    I do often wish that there were others like myself on the forum who are not into wearing kilts for the history and heritage aspect. But by this time I'm pretty used to dressing my way and being the only one. I get to be looked down upon by the "uber-traditionalists" and the "uber-macho" groups equally.

    But at least I present my myself in public with a bit of pride in how I look and with respect to the lady next to me. And in all honesty, I feel that that is what makes X Marks different, unique and why I like our community.
    "Too traditional and stuck up about how we dress." That is, I suppose, how some might see it that way and when all is said and done, most of us on this website and elsewhere, have the privilege of making a choice on how we choose to dress. The military do have dress regulations of one sort or another but civilians don't. There are however dress conventions though and whether we like it or not there are social expectations on what is worn for certain events. These conventions vary from Country to Country and is possibly influenced by the climate, a more liberal attitude to attire and ignorance. Kilt attire is no exception to these social requirements either.

    What I see on this website more than anything else, but not exclusively, is a wish and need to understand the traditional thinking of Scottish kilt attire by the many. What I don't see, here on this website, is a wish to follow slavishly traditional kilt attire and the conventions that go with it.

    What I also see, is a need from many of the members here to understand traditional kilt attire and its conventions and then adapt that knowledge to their own particular circumstances. In doing that, from my point of view, is that some are more successful in doing so than others. Nevertheless the privilege of choice has prevailed.

    Now if advice has genuinely been asked for, then those that might have a helpful contribution to make do so, even if its unpopular and sometimes unhelpful is the inevitable result on a healthy website such as this. But, BUT, I reject the discription of this website being "stuck up" outright.
    Last edited by Jock Scot; 19th April 21 at 12:49 AM.
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

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  8. #5
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    I've always been open to "edge of the envelope and beyond" but at least in a comfortable, NOT slovenly way.

    What was sad about this guy was IF I'd been kilted too I'd have never asked him for a picture together. Just too rugged.

    If I had it to do all over again I might have suggested he try a pareo so he wouldn't have to sit on the pleats so would be more comfortable.

    Not a good example to my neighbors of what a kilted gent normally looks like.
    Ol' Macdonald himself, a proud son of Skye and Cape Breton Island
    Lifetime Member STA. Two time winner of Utilikiltarian of the Month.
    "I'll have a kilt please, a nice hand sewn tartan, 16 ounce Strome. Oh, and a sporran on the side, with a strap please."

  9. #6
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    I think there is a different way to look at this. I’m coming at this from the perspective of someone who has been around disability his entire life. We do not know what the gentlemen is going through, we do not know what his disability is if any. Therefore we can not judge. Personally I do take pride in my kilt and as an aside my twin brother who does have a disability was married in a kilt but said after that he would not wear it again as it did not work with his disability. All I’m saying is perhaps to be a bit more understanding of what could be a very difficult situation. Also it’s still a pandemic so someone with a compromised immune system may be reticent to discuss anything with a stranger.


  10. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverkilt View Post
    ...it was good to see a fellow gent in a kilt, but sad that he seemed to disrespect the kilt.
    Setting aside for the sake of argument potential mitigating factors, and taking this statement at face value, it's something I've experienced many times with the pipes.

    There seems to be an inverse proportion regarding someone's skill at playing pipes and their likelihood of being out in public playing them. The best pipers are hardly ever heard by the public, as they play at prestigious solo competitions that few people have heard of, and even fewer attend. Middling pipers like me play when we're paid to, at funerals and weddings mostly. It's the punters who are quick to play anytime, anywhere, and are the most likely to be encountered by the General Public.

    It's embarrassing because it creates and reinforces a public perception that the pipes aren't "real instruments".

    I have experienced this with Highland Dress. There's a goofy local guy who shows up at Scottish functions wearing a bizarre conglomeration of modern and historical civilian and military Highland Dress. It can only reinforce public perceptions gleaned from watching Brigadoon etc.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

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  12. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Richard View Post
    Setting aside for the sake of argument potential mitigating factors, and taking this statement at face value, it's something I've experienced many times with the pipes.

    There seems to be an inverse proportion regarding someone's skill at playing pipes and their likelihood of being out in public playing them. The best pipers are hardly ever heard by the public, as they play at prestigious solo competitions that few people have heard of, and even fewer attend. Middling pipers like me play when we're paid to, at funerals and weddings mostly. It's the punters who are quick to play anytime, anywhere, and are the most likely to be encountered by the General Public.

    It's embarrassing because it creates and reinforces a public perception that the pipes aren't "real instruments".

    I have experienced this with Highland Dress. There's a goofy local guy who shows up at Scottish functions wearing a bizarre conglomeration of modern and historical civilian and military Highland Dress. It can only reinforce public perceptions gleaned from watching Brigadoon etc.
    Again, putting aside any mitigating factors, I have also found this to be true when I encounter kilt-wearers and/or pipe players in my area. Now, with that having been said, I am sure there are more than a few pipe players that hear me practicing at the remote end of the train station parking lot and/or at the recycling center parking lot, and think "that dude thinks he is showing off, and he is TERRIBLE." To be clear, I feel like I know my limitations and that's why I play in places people don't need to hear me.


    On the kilting front, I run into a lot of people in the curling world who go "oh, this is Scottish, and so is that, so let me wear a kilt!" and then show up wearing something cheaply made, or more regularly, a tartan/plaid skirt. To be honest, I always do try to engage those people in conversation, and I have found the vast majority to be well engaged, interested, and open to the advice. I have recommended a number of our sponsors to this group, and always found them, while sometimes shocked by the prices, understanding that you get what you pay for.

    To Riverkilt's original interaction though, I have to say that my other ~half of interactions with people wearing kilts are similar to yours. Some guy wearing something cheaply made, not wanting to talk, etc. It's always frustrating to go so quickly from the elation of "another person in a kilt for me to talk to" to the let down of "that's why people think this is a joke." I sort of let it go. I work in consulting though, so maybe I am just so used to people paying me a lot of money for my opinion only to then do the opposite to get too worried about someone I was giving free help/advice to not taking it.

    Rob

  13. #9
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    How do you think many of us feel in Scotland when we see visitors and alas, some Scots too, wearing their version of the kilt, oh so poorly? I used to see it regularly------pre Covid------ and it used to irritate, no, wrong word,-----how about disappoint?----- me a lot and often my eyes would meet another onlooker and the look of disgust and silent agreement was plain to see and often at a range of 50 yards or more! I suppose I will see it again when visitors return.

    It was after such an event that I joined this website, with the mantra of; "if you are going to wear the kilt, then at least wear it well." I have not always been popular on this website with my thoughts, but at least I and some others, have managed to persuade some of you to wear the kilt well enough not to give me a heart attack!
    Last edited by Jock Scot; 14th April 21 at 02:56 AM. Reason: spelling
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

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  15. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jock Scot View Post
    How do you think many of us feel in Scotland when we see visitors and alas, some Scots too, wearing their version of the kilt, oh so poorly? I used to see it regularly------pre Covid------ and it used to irritate, no, wrong word,-----how about disappoint?----- me a lot and often my eyes would meet another onlooker and the look of disgust and silent agreement was plain to see and often at a range of 50 yards or more! I suppose I will see it again when visitors return.

    It was after such an event that I joined this website, with the mantra of; "if you are going to wear the kilt, then at least wear it well." I have not always been popular on this website with my thoughts, but at least I and some others, have managed to persuade some of you to wear the kilt well enough not to give me a heart attack!
    Jock,

    My band was gearing up to play at the 2020 World Pipe Band Championships before they were cancelled, and knowing that I just enjoy wearing kilts, someone higher up in the band came to me and said, in a very respectful and appropriate way, that he recommended I bring shorts and pants to wear when we aren't playing, because if I walk around town when we aren't playing and/or before/after when I planned a trip around the country, I would look like a tourist. Again, he was looking out for my best interests, and he knows that I generally wear very nice, well made kilts, and dress in a business casual or higher manner. His take was that in all the years playing over in Scotland and Ireland, you get a lot of "that guy," and he wanted to help me avoid being perceived as "that guy."

    Rob

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