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Thread: Small Pipes

  1. #11
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    That touches upon yet another can of worms! And that's the differences in chanter designs and especially reed designs.

    Highland practice chanters, and the "miniature Highland bagpipes, or chamber pipes" long made by Highland pipe makers, have a narrow cylindrical bore and a long narrow reed.

    Northumbrian smallpipe chanters, long made by NSP makers, have a similar narrow cylindrical bore but a quite different style of reed, shorter and wider.

    I don't know to what extent the chanter bores varied, so I tend to ascribe the differences to the reed design. The NSP chanter with its short fat reed gives more volume and a darker, richer tone as compared to Highland practice chanters and miniature pipes, which tend to sound thin and nasal.

    In the 1970s the great Northumbrian smallpipe maker Colin Ross decided to create a Highland piper-friendly version of the NSP. He did this by removing all the chanter keys, opening up the chanter bottom, and reconfiguring the finger-holes so that Highland pipers, using their normal Highland pipe fingering, could produce the normal Highland pipe scale.

    The bore and reed design of the NSP was retained, giving the dark rich tone of the NSP.

    He also simplified the drone configuration, going from the usual NSP setup of four complex drones to a more Scottish setup of three simple drones.

    Thus the "Scottish Smallpipe" was born.

    NSPs were commonly made in G, F, and D. The new Scottish Smallpipe was offered in a number of keys including D, C, Bb, and A. The 'A' Scottish Smallpipe chanter was nearly an octave lower than the 'G' Northumbrian Smallpipe chanter.

    So, the situation was that more-or-less similar instruments were being made by the Highland pipe makers and the Northumbrian pipe makers, though with different chanter reed designs giving different-sounding chanters.

    Seems that one by one the Scottish pipe makers abandoned the traditional practice-chanter style chanter and switched to the Northumbrian-style chanter for their Scottish Smallpipes.

    Jerry Gibson, the American Highland pipe maker, began using the Northumbrian-style chanter and reed design for his practice chanters. Thus a Gibson practice chanter is actually a mouth-blown smallpipe chanter, rather than a traditional Highland practice chanter. They're more freeblowing and don't have the kazoo-like sound associated with Highland practice chanters.

    Here are traditional cane Highland practice chanter reeds (top) and a cane Northumbrian Smallpipe chanter reed (bottom)

    Last edited by OC Richard; 29th May 21 at 06:42 AM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

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  3. #12
    Grump is offline Oops, it seems this member needs to update their email address
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    I was beginning to form the thought that smallpipes or whatever were not a substitute for bagpipes . The more info that is posted the more this reinforces that opinion. One of the first clues was the frequency of operation 440 is a long way from 476 where I normally tune and even a little further down the line from 466 where I used to reside. I'm sure we could foster some interest in the frequency variations of piping these days and the design of chanters and reeds to facilitate this change for whatever reason. Of interest is John Walsh has gone into semi retirement and some orders from 2018 have yet to be filled. A lot of the Walsh products were made from maple some of which may be as hard as B/W longevity and durability remain to be seen. Maybe a goose is the way to go?
    Piping Is Life!....The rest doesn't matter.

  4. #13
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    Just leaving this here is it hasn’t been seen before. Swedish pipes...

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W780LSQHbYY

  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grump View Post
    I was beginning to form the thought that smallpipes or whatever were not a substitute for bagpipes.
    Just to be clear, Northumbrian smallpipes and Scottish smallpipes are bagpipes.

    So too are the Bulgarian gaida, the Spanish gaita, the Irish uilleann pipes, the French cabrette and cornmuse, and every other species of bagpipe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grump View Post
    ...the frequency of operation 440 is a long way from 476 where I normally tune and even a little further down the line from 466...
    To put it into perspective:

    440 Concert A natural

    466 Concert B flat

    494 Concert B natural

    Thus the modern Great Highland bagpipe pitch of around 480 is pretty much halfway between Concert B flat and Concert B natural.

    Modern "long" or "fullsize" practice chanters are often around 450, halfway between Concert A natural and Concert B flat.

    And that's where the Great Highland bagpipes used to be pitched, in the 19th century and early 20th century, around 450.

    For "playing well with others" either 440 or 446 works equally well, or if we want to keep going sharper we would do well to hit 494, though B Major isn't the handiest of keys for most people.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grump View Post
    I'm sure we could foster some interest in the frequency variations of piping these days and the design of chanters and reeds to facilitate this change for whatever reason.
    I hear that there's a movement to bring the Great Highland pipes back down to 466 for solo and band competitions. I don't think it will happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grump View Post
    John Walsh has gone into semi-retirement...
    That's a big loss to the piping community. His polypenco smallpipes, fully reeded with plastic reeds of his own design, were by far the best bargain in Scottish smallpipes. His smallpipes came fully set up and ready to play out of the box. The only Walsh smallpipes I've seen that didn't work right were ones that the owners had mucked with the reeds.
    Last edited by OC Richard; 4th June 21 at 04:12 PM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbutts View Post
    When I purchased a set of the common stock/Northumbrian style smallpipes in A, I soon discovered they were a very different instrument and not completely suited for GHB practice...the holes have a slightly different placement and low A is pitched about 440. I suspect if I used the smallpipes in lieu of the practice chanter, bad habits would follow.
    This raises the important point that traditional Highland practice chanters were never intended to be musical instruments per se, but practice tools. The holes were placed to simulate the actual Highland pipe chanter's hole-spacing, not where they needed to be to produce an in-tune scale.

    Ironically, when Highland pipe makers began moving the holes on the Great Highland pipe chanter (starting around 1980) they kept making practice chanters the same as before, so that the traditional "standard" size practice chanter was something of a fossil, retaining the old Great Highland chanter hole-spacing.

    (Highland pipe makers, starting in the 1980s, moved the High G hole and the D hole further down, and reduced the size slightly, to flatten those two notes.)

    But the Scottish smallpipe IS a musical instrument, so the finger-holes need to be placed properly to give an in-tune scale, not to mimic the Great Highland chanter.

    Some makers make SSPs in C and Bb, and these are closer to the finger-hole spacing of a Highland practice chanter.

    However to get an SSP chanter down in A=440 the finger-holes have to be more widely spaced than on Highland practice chanters as you point out.

    The same is true of my McCallum Great Highland pipe chanter in Concert B flat (466).

    Personally it doesn't bother me much to switch back and forth between the modern-style McCallum 480 pipe chanter, the McCallum 466 pipe chanter, my John Walsh Scottish smallpipe chanter in 440, and my McCallum "long" practice chanter. In truth the difference in the hole-spacing isn't dramatic.

    To put it into perspective, here's a McCallum 480 pipe chanter compared with some of the whistles I play.

    Last edited by OC Richard; 4th June 21 at 04:40 PM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

  7. #16
    Grump is offline Oops, it seems this member needs to update their email address
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    Thank you for the very concise and detailed explanation. My observation in saying that "small pipes" could not be a substitute was based on frequency . My ear can certainly distinguish between 440 Hz. and 476 Hz. Therefore "small pipes" will never sound the same as Great Highland Bagpipes and they will never be a substitute. In my very limited experience with piping I have never heard a set of pipes tuned bellow 466Hz. and ( fortunately) never above 480 Hz.
    With the aid of some very talented people I managed to locate a set of John Walsh Shuttle pipes. They have a blow pipe, chanter and bag there the similarity to the GHB stops. Are they Bag pipes? By loose definition I guess they are but sound wise they are not. They are fun to play but at this stage they are extremely easy to over blow which may take some time getting used to. Interesting to note is that to me they feel that they take less air than a practice chanter which may or may not be technically true. The quality of craftsmanship is exceptional but after having read rave reviews about John Walsh I would expect this to be true. It's also nice to know that New Brunswick maple is good for more than just railway ties.
    Here's to hoping that they bring the real pipes (oh no) back down to 466 Hz. where they belong.
    Piping Is Life!....The rest doesn't matter.

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