Castellated Hose

[figheadair]

Wow. Is there any historicity to that outfit? Or is it from the Allen Brothers imagination?

I think this is a classic example of the Allen Brothers using an existing portrait and letting their imagination run wild. In this case, I'm sure that the Mungo Murray portrait was the source. The arrangement of the plaid, the doublet, hose and the ostrich feather bonnet are all similar.



Another from Costume of the Clans, this one is based on the portrait of Lord Duffus.

[OC Richard]

Wow they did let their imagination run wild with the Murray portrait! I didn't recognise it.

The Lord Duffus one stays closer to the source, but still, why not reproduce the original? Rather than re-imagining it?

Obviously taking original period iconography, embellishing it, and presenting the embellished version as historical, flies in the face of proper methodology.

Those re-imaginings do give us a bit of insight into the way their minds worked: play fast-and-loose with the facts, and present their own creations as being historical.

In any case the Allens' creations get us no closer to the origin of the castellated hose.

[JPS]

One thing that stands out to me is that when we talk about castellated hose, there are two different ways of achieving the look. Richard, you posted a picture of your own hose, which are meant to create a castellated top, but here, there's another method, folding down the top to create only the appearance of a castellated hose behind a contrasting foreground (for the record, I think this looks a bit neater). I wonder if one of these predated the other, or whether they developed independently of one another.

[Touchstone]

Thanks for that!

They refer to Gaston Phoebus' Hunting Book (c1388) which I'd never heard of. It has an amazing collection of detailed paintings showing the clothing of the period.

If only we had something like that showing Highland Dress!

I wonder what the earliest depiction of castellated hose is. In the Hunting Book it appears on head-dress.

(I posted an image from the Hunting Book, then removed it when I realised it probably violates a number of rules here! It's pretty gruesome.)

Not quite hose, but the next best thing - garters! And probably not of much use in the actual kilt hose discussion, but I thought these might be interesting. I asked some friends if they knew anything about the subject, and these two items popped up. Both are said to be late 14th Century. The first is in the Museum of London. I don't know the provenance of the second.

[Touchstone]

Not quite hose, but the next best thing - garters! And probably not of much use in the actual kilt hose discussion, but I thought these might be interesting. I asked some friends if they knew anything about the subject, and these two items popped up. Both are said to be late 14th Century. The first is in the Museum of London. I don't know the provenance of the second.

Sorry, the pictures got mislaid.

[figheadair]

Wow they did let their imagination run wild with the Murray portrait! I didn't recognise it.

Obviously taking original period iconography, embellishing it, and presenting the embellished version as historical, flies in the face of proper methodology.

Those re-imaginings do give us a bit of insight into the way their minds worked: play fast-and-loose with the facts, and present their own creations as being historical.

In any case the Allens' creations get us no closer to the origin of the castellated hose.

Here's another of their fantasy images in which the (plain) castellated hose are clear. I can't haven't worked out what the source for this one was but it has elements of Waitt's Champion and Piper to the Laird of Grant.

[EagleJCS]

Here's another of their fantasy images in which the (plain) castellated hose are clear. I can't haven't worked out what the source for this one was but it has elements of Waitt's Champion and Piper to the Laird of Grant.

Images like this put me in mind of paintings I have seen of the 15th and 16th century European court dress. (King Henry VIII and earlier). The leg coverings would be the main thing making it a bit different, since in the court dress paintings, they appear to be wearing tight-fitting leggings going all the way up (would they be called trews?) rather than the knee-length socks we call kilt hose.

Nothing else to add to the conversation.

[Touchstone]

Images like this put me in mind of paintings I have seen of the 13th and 14th century European court dress. (King Henry VIII and earlier). The leg coverings would be the main thing making it a bit different, since in the court dress paintings, they appear to be wearing tight-fitting leggings going all the way up (would they be called trews?) rather than the knee-length socks we call kilt hose.

Nothing else to add to the conversation.

Sorry to continue derailing the kilt hose discussion. Just let me know if it's annoying.

The terms vary by time and place, but the full-length tight-fitting leggings are often called "chauses/chausses" in the Middle Ages on the Continent; or just some variation on "hose" (e.g., Dutch: hoos). They are worn up through the English Renaissance (Henry VIII is 16th Century); Shakespeare seems to have called them just "hose". (Fun fact: since there wasn't much clingy, stretchy material in those days, the chauses were held up by tying them to your underwear.)

The term "trews" is a little confusing. Pre-Seventeenth Century, they seem more likely to be baggy (at least from waist to knee; below that they might be bound tighter), then they appear to have really slimmed down by the time they become Highland-wear. As far as I know, trews were always full trousers, not leggings.

Historico-linguistic aside: According to Merriam Webster - and despite appearances - "chauses" and "hose" have completely different derivations. The former is from the Latin for heel (which morphed into a word for shoe, which morphed ...); the latter from Old English / Gemanic for ... legging.

[EagleJCS]

Sorry to continue derailing the kilt hose discussion. Just let me know if it's annoying.

The terms vary by time and place, but the full-length tight-fitting leggings are often called "chauses/chausses" in the Middle Ages on the Continent; or just some variation on "hose" (e.g., Dutch: hoos). They are worn up through the English Renaissance (Henry VIII is 16th Century);

Ooops. Corrected my previous post. I sometimes get confused with counting back the centuries (1900's = 20th century, etc.), especially when I'm trying to do it before my first cup of coffee.

[Touchstone]

Ooops. Corrected my previous post. I sometimes get confused with counting back the centuries (1900's = 20th century, etc.), especially when I'm trying to do it before my first cup of coffee.

Me too.