Newbie needs advice - kilts and cruising

**BuckeyeMark** · 21st August 21, 07:48 PM

Next year I'll be on a British Isle cruise with two stops in Scotland (we hope!). There will be formal nights on the cruise and I've decided I'd like to try the formal kilt look this time. Absolutely new to this. Need much guidance.

1. What are the big NO-NOs - I don't want to unintentionally do something stupid and offensive.

2. Tuxes are getting rarer on formal nights as cruising has gotten more informal, but you still see some (and yes, I rock a double breasted tux that is very cool, and also the white tux jacket from Casablanca - everyone comes to Rick's, you know, but I digress). So do I go full Prince Charles short jacket or would an argyll jacket be better if there are a lot of suits?

3. What is all that extra bling on the PC jackets?!

4. How much worry do I need to have about matching in the total outfit? I see sporans with thistles and sgian dubh with thistles too and kilt pins with thistles. Should that all match? If I go with thistles on the sporan then I have to have them everywhere else? I kinda like lions but I wonder if that is a "no" because of the British lion ... and I don't think the Scots are real fond of them?

5. Rules on dress sporans? I've read some here already but just need the short answer: fur or black leather?

6. I am hopeful to trace my roots across the pond and find a clan, but if disaster happens (argh, I'm French! LOL) then there are a couple of "universal" tartans like BlackWatch that are okay? This isn't viewed as lame and I really should junk the whole project rather than wear a generic tartan?

7. What about fly plaids? That seems super dressy. Don't see that a lot in people's pics from cruises. Are there rules about when to wear one?

Sorry for so many questions. Do not want to do this wrong. Do not want to disrespect kilts and all who love them! Thanks for your help.

**Touchstone** · 22nd August 21, 02:10 AM

Originally Posted by BuckeyeMark

4. How much worry do I need to have about matching in the total outfit? I see sporans with thistles and sgian dubh with thistles too and kilt pins with thistles. Should that all match? If I go with thistles on the sporan then I have to have them everywhere else? I kinda like lions but I wonder if that is a "no" because of the British lion ... and I don't think the Scots are real fond of them?

I'll let the wiser heads respond on the other questions, but I think you should confirm with the cruise line about whether or not a sgian dubh would be permitted. Even a fake one (with a corkscrew, say) might be questioned.

**Tomo** · 22nd August 21, 02:41 AM

1. Unlikely you would do something offensive. No real no-nos but I would avoid white or ecru hose unless you want to go for the hire-shop look - and steer clear of those hideous rouche ties. Just keep it simple and classy.

2. Black Argyll with silver buttons is more versatile and can be worn with a tie or a bow tie - both this and PC would appropriate for evening wear so it's down to personal preference. Tweed jackets are for day wear.

3. ?? if you mean the buttons then that's typical for evening jackets and doublets - although you can also get these with an antique finish or in black if you don't like the chrome look - but most folk wont even notice the buttons - whatever you go for.

4. Not at all - the idea is more for things that complement each other rather than matchy-matchy - but again it comes down to personal tastes and preferences. The lion rampant has been a Scottish symbol since the 13th.

5. Up to you - there are plenty of leather evening sporrans - the thing to look for is a metal cantle (day sporrans generally have a leather flap instead).

6. There are hundreds of universal tartans to choose from and Black Watch is a classic and in no way seen as lame - but here's the thing, this whole clan tartan thing is really a 19th flight of fancy so if you like a particular tartan go for it - no-one is going to ask to see you pedigree or "entitlement" to wear it.

7. Don't bother - it's completely unnecessary and largely an invention of the hire industry

**Jock Scot** · 22nd August 21, 04:40 AM

Originally Posted by Tomo

1. Unlikely you would do something offensive. No real no-nos but I would avoid white or ecru hose unless you want to go for the hire-shop look - and steer clear of those hideous rouche ties. Just keep it simple and classy.

2. Black Argyll with silver buttons is more versatile and can be worn with a tie or a bow tie - both this and PC would appropriate for evening wear so it's down to personal preference. Tweed jackets are for day wear.

3. ?? if you mean the buttons then that's typical for evening jackets and doublets - although you can also get these with an antique finish or in black if you don't like the chrome look - but most folk wont even notice the buttons - whatever you go for.

4. Not at all - the idea is more for things that complement each other rather than matchy-matchy - but again it comes down to personal tastes and preferences. The lion rampant has been a Scottish symbol since the 13th.

5. Up to you - there are plenty of leather evening sporrans - the thing to look for is a metal cantle (day sporrans generally have a leather flap instead).

6. There are hundreds of universal tartans to choose from and Black Watch is a classic and in no way seen as lame - but here's the thing, this whole clan tartan thing is really a 19th flight of fancy so if you like a particular tartan go for it - no-one is going to ask to see you pedigree or "entitlement" to wear it.

7. Don't bother - it's completely unnecessary and largely an invention of the hire industry

Very good advice above. The only thing that I take issue with is in point 2, is the "Tweed jackets are for daywear".

Tweed jackets are never worn for formal attire whether thats for day or evening kilt attire. However tweed can be legitimately worn in the evening for less formal events that just require a lounge or business suit. For example, a smart but not formal evening drinks do, or taking the wife out for a smart, but not a formal dinner or occasion, then the tweed kilt jacket is entirely suitable.

**kingandrew** · 22nd August 21, 07:07 AM

The advice above is very good. I have just a few thoughts.

Regarding lions: Scotland is part of Britain, so a "British" lion would not be unwelcome. And yes, the lion rampant has been the royal flag of Scotland for several centuries and is a commonly-seen symbol of the country.

The shirt and bow tie you wear with your tuxedo will work fine with the Prince Charlie or black Argyle. Your tuxedo shoes will also probably work fine.

I lean towards fur for formal sporrans, but no one is likely to fault you for a smart leather model with a metal cantle.

As noted, it's best to avoid white hose. Although traditionalists may prefer argyle or diced hose for evening formal wear, no one will criticize you for wearing a solid color if you prefer. Don't be afraid to try a bolder color (claret, yellow), as it will likely look better than black.

Skip the fly plaid.

I hope you are able to set sail and have a great cruise.

Andrew

**davedove** · 22nd August 21, 10:49 AM

It's all about attitude. Relax and have fun with it!

**Tomo** · 22nd August 21, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

Tweed jackets are never worn for formal attire whether thats for day or evening kilt attire. However tweed can be legitimately worn in the evening for less formal events that just require a lounge or business suit. For example, a smart but not formal evening drinks do, or taking the wife out for a smart, but not a formal dinner or occasion, then the tweed kilt jacket is entirely suitable.

Agreed - a bit of lazy use of terminology on my part - I did indeed mean not for formal events

**Jock Scot** · 22nd August 21, 12:50 PM

Ah right! I did wonder, but no harm done I think.

**BuckeyeMark** · 22nd August 21, 06:32 PM

This is all really really good info. I appreciate it so much!

* Can I really wear my tux shoes? Mine aren't traditional "joe tux shoes" but have a little flair to them. Wondering if they would be out of order.

* Don't worry - I won't bring a sgian-dubh on an airplane or cruise. Best place to buy a dummy?

* What about navy PCs? Was scouting the interwebz and saw some really good looks. Wife wants to know what to wear with me on formal night. Think she could pull off a navy dress and me the navy PC? Little nervous about doing something different first time out. Maybe just stay with traditional black.

Thanks again. This group is really hepful!

**Jock Scot** · 23rd August 21, 12:35 AM

It might be best for you not to be too adventurous for your first time out, so I would stick to a black PC. I am quite sure that your wife will look absolutely splendid in whatever colour she chooses.