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  1. #1
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    Kilts and Military Uniforms

    I retired from the US Navy in 2017 after 30 years of service. I was wondering what the general experience was with mixing military uniforms with kilts. I’m specifically considering the mess dress jackets to wear with a kilt. Here are the two jackets in question:

    A3CED8E5-B2B8-4A13-A6F4-70EE89B88993.jpeg

    F70AB54B-CAFF-4F0A-B2ED-3626BAD708B8.png

    I’m not interested in debating what’s “correct”…after 30 years, I’ll wear
    what I want and anyone who wants to report me to the Navy is welcomed to. I was just curious if this was a common practice or if I’m really being a rebel.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Navy87Guy; 10th October 21 at 03:22 PM.

  2. #2
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    First I should point out that in the British Army kilts have been mixing with military uniforms for nearly 300 years.

    There's nothing new or experimental about it; the Army has had centuries to get everything figured out.

    To my way of thinking you're asking, in reality, one of the following two questions, neither of which necessarily involve Highland Dress:

    1) Should I mix a US military uniform with the military uniform of another nation?

    2) Should I mix a US military uniform with civilian attire?


    About #1, would you attend a function wearing a mix of US and British uniform? If you wouldn't, then consider that Highland Dress (kilts, sporrans, hose, etc) have been worn as part of the military uniforms of specific British Army units for centuries.

    About #2, would you attend a function wearing a mix of US military uniform and civilian attire? If you wouldn't, then consider that Highland Dress (kilts, sporrans, hose, etc) are traditional civilian clothing in the Highlands of Scotland.

    If you're good with doing #1, then go for it, and wear your US Mess Dress jacket with the items worn in British Highland Mess Dress.

    If you're good with doing #2, then go for it, and wear your US Mess Dress jacket with any items you choose of Highland civilian dress.
    Last edited by OC Richard; 10th October 21 at 04:27 PM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

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  4. #3
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    OCR has the right of it.

    That being said, your dress black jacket would look great with the US Navy tartan.

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  6. #4
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    I am a Canadian Navy veteran and we are specifically forbidden from wearing our old uniform kit without DND permission. I wear a long obsolete "command" pin on my blazer but that is about it. (QR&O 17.06)
    Those ancient U Nialls from Donegal were a randy bunch.

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  8. #5
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    Mixing military clothing with civilian is an extremely difficult thing to do successfully, particularly when the doublet or tunic is decorated with braid and decorations as these beautifully smart naval ones are.

    To wear an army kilt with civilian garments is often done, and works very well, as the difference between a civilian and military kilt is negligible. But a military mess jacket can only ever be what it is, and will always be recognised as being part of a uniform - no matter what the wearer intends.

    But I can see occasions when one of these mess jackets could be paired with a civilin kilt quite successfully - such as at a military organised St Andrew's or Burns' Night dinner when others will be naval or military attire, and the wearing of uniform is expected. A piper's style hair sporran would be needed to keep the balance with the formality of the uniform.

    If you are no longer on active service, and the kilt-wearing occassion is not so formal as to require you to be in uniform, it would be far better form to go all uniform, or all civvies.

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  10. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Navy87Guy View Post
    I retired from the US Navy in 2017 after 30 years of service. I was wondering what the general experience was with mixing military uniforms with kilts. I’m specifically considering the mess dress jackets to wear with a kilt. Here are the two jackets in question:





    I’m not interested in debating what’s “correct”…after 30 years, I’ll wear
    what I want and anyone who wants to report me to the Navy is welcomed to. I was just curious if this was a common practice or if I’m really being a rebel.

    Thanks!
    I do have a question for you, that you might be able to answer, now that you brought it up. I was looking at an early 20th century us navy uniform plate, with prescriptions of proper uniforms. There was a white mess jacket (sans tails) labelled mess dress & a blakc tailcoat (with full tails) labelled evening dress. Both had gilt buttons, & much like the images you posted in first post, the black evening uniform had sleeve embroidery whilst the white mess jacket did not.

    What's the distinction between mess dress & evening dress in the navy? (or military in general)? Up until now, I had thought the terms (in the context of uniforms) evening dress & mess dress were the same & interchangeable (I do realize what the term "mess" is in the context of what you wear for eating, but I also figured evening functions invariably involve the same thing).

    Does the navy still have separate evening & mess dress uniforms? I do know (I can’t remember the exact year, but it was around the time of the korean war or just before) the uniforms across the board were dramatically simplified (same reform that abolished the knee-length formal day navy frock coat)

    Do let us civvies know, maybe steve ashton (retired marine) could also enlighten us regarding his branch as well.

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  12. #7
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    The National Maritime Museum produced a beautifully illustrated and detailed book entitled Dressed to Kill - British Naval Uniform, Masculinity and Contemporary Fashion 1748-1857 back in 2007, using their own collection and donated items.

    Not only are the various elements of the garments examined in detail, design patterns that could be followed by a competent tailor are also included. As military uniform was developed from civilian fashions of the period, it would be quite easy to continue the process and take the military 'cut' back into modern civilian use.

    The short-waisted and cut-away styles necessary for wear aboard would transfer very easily to use with the kilt, and could make a very attractive alternative to the Prince Charlie or Regulation Doublet for smart dress wear.

  13. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriegbert View Post
    I do have a question for you, that you might be able to answer, now that you brought it up. I was looking at an early 20th century us navy uniform plate, with prescriptions of proper uniforms. There was a white mess jacket (sans tails) labelled mess dress & a blakc tailcoat (with full tails) labelled evening dress. Both had gilt buttons, & much like the images you posted in first post, the black evening uniform had sleeve embroidery whilst the white mess jacket did not.

    What's the distinction between mess dress & evening dress in the navy? (or military in general)? Up until now, I had thought the terms (in the context of uniforms) evening dress & mess dress were the same & interchangeable (I do realize what the term "mess" is in the context of what you wear for eating, but I also figured evening functions invariably involve the same thing).

    Does the navy still have separate evening & mess dress uniforms? I do know (I can’t remember the exact year, but it was around the time of the korean war or just before) the uniforms across the board were dramatically simplified (same reform that abolished the knee-length formal day navy frock coat)

    Do let us civvies know, maybe steve ashton (retired marine) could also enlighten us regarding his branch as well.
    Mess Dress is for dining functions where a formal uniform is required, and is if I remember correctly, the traditional uniform of the Officer’s Mess aboard ship.

    In the Marine Corps, SNCO’s and above are allowed to wear Mess Dress, which is a slightly different uniform than the traditional dress blues. If the individual so desires, they may wear mess dress to any event where Dress Blues are the uniform of the day, unless otherwise specified by the Commanding Officer. The exception is Mess Nights, which are a traditional unit function. The uniform for a Mess night is whatever the CO declares it to be, and showing up in a different uniform is a quick way to be fined by the President of the Mess (which means paying for other people’s drinks).

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  15. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriegbert View Post
    I do have a question for you, that you might be able to answer, now that you brought it up. I was looking at an early 20th century us navy uniform plate, with prescriptions of proper uniforms. There was a white mess jacket (sans tails) labelled mess dress & a blakc tailcoat (with full tails) labelled evening dress. Both had gilt buttons, & much like the images you posted in first post, the black evening uniform had sleeve embroidery whilst the white mess jacket did not.

    What's the distinction between mess dress & evening dress in the navy? (or military in general)? Up until now, I had thought the terms (in the context of uniforms) evening dress & mess dress were the same & interchangeable (I do realize what the term "mess" is in the context of what you wear for eating, but I also figured evening functions invariably involve the same thing).

    Does the navy still have separate evening & mess dress uniforms? I do know (I can’t remember the exact year, but it was around the time of the korean war or just before) the uniforms across the board were dramatically simplified (same reform that abolished the knee-length formal day navy frock coat)

    Do let us civvies know, maybe steve ashton (retired marine) could also enlighten us regarding his branch as well.
    The US Navy does not have evening dress anymore. The black (really, Navy blue) and white jackets are interchangeable based on the season. Both are worn with high waisted tuxedo-style pants.

  16. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recon1342 View Post
    The exception is Mess Nights, which are a traditional unit function.
    Mess Nights were some of the best nights throughout my whole tenure in the Corps.

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