Black barathea argyle question

[kilted2000]

I know that a black barathea argyle with chrome buttons is suitable for daywear formal as a highland version of a morning coat. As I understand it it can also be worn with a black self tied bowtie for some black tie events. The problem is that I have always been taught that a black suit should only be worn by undertakers and that it was less aesthetically interesting than other options. I know highland wear and Saxon wear are different, but I can't help feeling this way. I am willing to buy a black argyle if I must, but could a dark navy barathea jacket with metal buttons still be used in the same way? Would it still be suitable for black tie? Even my saxon tuxedo is Midnight Blue instead of black.

[Jock Scot]

I have never heard that black is only for undertakers, but in all honesty, I think that you are overthinking this colour business. A sober dark grey or dark blue jacket would certainly catch my eye, but I doubt that anyone would consider it as a faux pas.

[Jock Scot]

I know that a black barathea argyle with chrome buttons is suitable for daywear formal as a highland version of a morning coat. As I understand it it can also be worn with a black self tied bowtie for some black tie events. The problem is that I have always been taught that a black suit should only be worn by undertakers and that it was less aesthetically interesting than other options. I know highland wear and Saxon wear are different, but I can't help feeling this way. I am willing to buy a black argyle if I must, but could a dark navy barathea jacket with metal buttons still be used in the same way? Would it still be suitable for black tie? Even my saxon tuxedo is Midnight Blue instead of black.

I have been giving your post some considerable thought and in all honesty I am confused. You seem to understand the differences between Highland attire and Saxon wear pretty well --------many don't------and you are happy to wear the kilt. By wearing the kilt in the USA and by wearing it where you do, does probably single you out as "different". So why are you so worried about going the "whole hog" and wearing a black argyll? I really don't understand ------not criticising ---------your thought processes here.

So in a nutshell, you don't wear black with saxon attire in your area as it relates to funerals and undertakers, yet you are happy to wear the kilt ------maybe the locals might regard it as a skirt? Or, they accept it as a kilt and maybe understand the attire choices that go with it and if, they don't understand exactly the attire choices, they might understand that they are different. So what is wrong with the usual black argyll when worn with the kilt?

[kilted2000]

I have been giving your post some considerable thought and in all honesty I am confused. You seem to understand the differences between Highland attire and Saxon wear pretty well --------many don't------and you are happy to wear the kilt. By wearing the kilt in the USA and by wearing it where you do, does probably single you out as "different". So why are you so worried about going the "whole hog" and wearing a black argyll? I really don't understand ------not criticising ---------your thought processes here.

So in a nutshell, you don't wear black with saxon attire in your area as it relates to funerals and undertakers, yet you are happy to wear the kilt ------maybe the locals might regard it as a skirt? Or, they accept it as a kilt and maybe understand the attire choices that go with it and if, they don't understand exactly the attire choices, they might understand that they are different. So what is wrong with the usual black argyll when worn with the kilt?

My concern is less about other people and more about my personal dislike of black suits and jackets. I feel they can be very harsh looking especially in daylight and frankly boring. Where I live, and I know things are thought of differently in the Highlands, dark gray or blue are the traditional choices, black is worn but it is a newer fashion. I'm trying to avoid black while keeping the versatility of the black argyll.

[Tomo]

You could always get an Argyll in navy / midnight Barathea - although these are less common than black.

I wouldn't think anyone would pay too much attention either way - the main focus of the outfit is the kilt and black is a classic (although not exclusive) combination.

[Micrographia]

A few different things going on here and as usual things are done a little differently depending where you are. The funereal attitude to black cloth in Saxon daywear is widely held in the UK as well, or it's seen as being for serving staff, so you see people in charcoal or dark blue lounge suits instead. As Jock notes though, it isn't worth worrying about Saxon conventions while wearing a kilt. Get a black Argyll and it will do double duty for formal wear - daywear or evening. No-one will care if you wear it when everyone else is in lounge suits either. They won't see past the kilt!

To be honest anything other than black barathea for formal kilt wear would look a little odd to me, even though I wouldn't wear a black lounge suit either. You would also stand out in a coloured Argyll if you find yourself in company where kilts are being worn and everyone else is in black jackets.

Saxon evening wear has its own conventions which are far more complex and judgemental than Highland dress. Black is the norm outside of the tropics - it's formal evening wear, not a lounge suit and wearing anything other than black (including accessories) is choosing to draw attention to yourself. This doesn't include midnight blue though, which is seen as a shade of black - it's acceptable because in the evening under artificial light it actually looks darker than black. In daylight you can see it's a very dark blue (and with black facings it looks odd), so it's not a great option for a formal Argyll that will be used day and night. Stick with black. There's a lot going on colour- and pattern-wise with all that tartan and hose below the waist and it'll match them all

EEM

[OC Richard]

Coming from the standpoint of traditional Highland Dress as it was maintained from around World War One up to around 1980 when the burgeoning Kilt Hire industry began having a deleterious impact, there was a separation between Evening Dress and Day Dress (in the early 20th century sometimes called Morning Dress, Outdoor Dress, or Field Dress).

Each category had dedicated forms of jacket, shirt, necktie, sporran, hose, and shoes, and the two are very rarely seen mixed. (The exception most often seen is the longstanding tendency of pipers to wear Evening sporrans with Day dress.)

What made a jacket "Evening" or "Day" wasn't so much the cut, but the fabric and buttons material.

So black Barathea with silver buttons meant "Evening" whether the cut was an Argyll, a doublet, a coatee, or what have you. And unlike with non-Highland attire colours other than black were perfectly acceptable, generally deep blue, green, or claret.

So at a black-tie function the gents not in Highland Dress would be expected to wear black jackets while gents in Highland Dress might appear in black or any other suitable Highland Evening Dress colour.

In like manner in non-Highland Dress Morning Dress is codified, but a gent in Highland Dress might show up in any smart Day Dress outfit, with jacket in Lovat etc tweed (as can be seen in recent Royal functions).

There is a bit of a middle ground which writers have been mentioning since at least 1910, and that is a charcoal grey Argyll, suggested over and over as suitable for guests at daytime weddings.

I can't recall anyone writing of Highland Dress suggesting wearing black jackets during the day.

[kilted2000]

Coming from the standpoint of traditional Highland Dress as it was maintained from around World War One up to around 1980 when the burgeoning Kilt Hire industry began having a deleterious impact, there was a separation between Evening Dress and Day Dress (in the early 20th century sometimes called Morning Dress, Outdoor Dress, or Field Dress).

Each category had dedicated forms of jacket, shirt, necktie, sporran, hose, and shoes, and the two are very rarely seen mixed. (The exception most often seen is the longstanding tendency of pipers to wear Evening sporrans with Day dress.)

What made a jacket "Evening" or "Day" wasn't so much the cut, but the fabric and buttons material.

So black Barathea with silver buttons meant "Evening" whether the cut was an Argyll, a doublet, a coatee, or what have you. And unlike with non-Highland attire colours other than black were perfectly acceptable, generally deep blue, green, or claret.

So at a black-tie function the gents not in Highland Dress would be expected to wear black jackets while gents in Highland Dress might appear in black or any other suitable Highland Evening Dress colour.

In like manner in non-Highland Dress Morning Dress is codified, but a gent in Highland Dress might show up in any smart Day Dress outfit, with jacket in Lovat etc tweed (as can be seen in recent Royal functions).

There is a bit of a middle ground which writers have been mentioning since at least 1910, and that is a charcoal grey Argyll, suggested over and over as suitable for guests at daytime weddings.

I can't recall anyone writing of Highland Dress suggesting wearing black jackets during the day.

What about post #7 of this thread.
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...xamples-85511/

[Tomo]

Whilst I can't cite any authorities, I have worn a black Argyll to daytime event - typically weddings were other guests are in morning suit. I would normally wear a regular tie with this.



Wearing the same jacket to an evening event (were other guests would typically be in black-tie) I might wear a bow tie instead - but typically I would a pc or doublet (depends on the event) instead.

By contrast for my own wedding - I wore a charcoal tweed jacket.

[plaid preacher]

What about post #7 of this thread.
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...xamples-85511/

Nowhere in that post does it say you must BBSB. It does say you can wear a jacket with the shiny buttons "if the event calls for formalwear and is a morning suit equivalent." The fact that the photo used shows a gentleman in a black jacket, that does not mean black is your only alternative, nor does the text of the OPs in post #2. Indeed, so many of the photos in that thread are NOT of people in BBSB; and if you look at posts #5 & #6, the last photo in #5 shows a gentleman at what seems to be quite a formal event - judging from the lady's dress - and he is wearing quite a loud tweed. The first post in #6 is our very own Jock Scot (and I believe that he is off to a morning wedding) in a more subdued tweed. I think the bigger challenge is that the conventions in highlandwear seem quite casual to the eye of many a North American; so that does take a little getting used to.