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  1. #11
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    If I can offer some advice from an almost 20 year career in kiltmaking, making kilts, both hand stitched and machine stitched, out of almost every type of fabric imaginable.

    I found Denim fabric to be the absolute worse fabric to make a kilt from. It is the reason that you see so few Denim kilts offered by professional kilt shops.

    Denim is a 100% Cotton fabric. And like all Cotton fabrics it is rugged but continues to shrink over its lifetime. This is why it makes a good fabric for blue jeans and why you see the puckers at the side seams. Every time Denim is washed it shrinks a little. Your legs inside tend to stretch the fabric back out but in stretching it weakens the fabric. That is why the legs just above the knees is one of the places that the fabric, not the seams, fail first.

    A kilt has no legs inside the pleats to stretch the pleats back out so they will shrink up to the point where they tend to splay out sort of like a ballet tutu.

    Cotton fabrics also do not hold a crease and wrinkle easily and fast. This is why cotton shirts needed to be ironed each time they were washed.
    This means that a Denim kilt will not hold the pleat creases. You must topstitch each and every pleat edge, inside and out, for the garment to retain its shape.
    And then iron out the wrinkles after every washing.

    The Art of Kiltmaking covers the methods to make a kilt from hard worsted spun, tightly woven, Wool fabric. It does not cover the methods to make a kilt from any other types of fabrics.
    TAoK covers the methods to hand stitch Wool fabrics and does not cover the methods needed to machine stitch a kilt.

    And as you have chosen Denim, hand stitching will be very difficult. Bordering on impossible, due to how hard and stiff the fabric is and how hard it is to push a hand sewing needle through it.

    I do not know how many times I have heard the argument that goes sort of like - "I will make a Denim 'practice' kilt first. Then I'll make a Wool Tartan kilt."

    And what is the result of thinking like this? In the end you have what looks like a practice kilt. And are never satisfied and happy with the result and you never get around to making your Tartan kilt.
    Where if you start with good quality kilt Wool you can practice all you want - rip out as necessary - and in the end you have your own Tartan kilt that you can proudly wear and boast - "I made it myself".

    My advice was always, that if your final goal is to make a Wool Tartan kilt, to buy the best, highest quality, Wool Tartan fabric that you can afford. This will be almost exactly the same as if you ordered a custom made kilt. The cost of the fabric is set by the mill.
    Where you save money by making your own kilt is in the labor.

    So buy the good stuff first.

    And one of the great things about good quality Wool fabric is that it is amazingly easy and forgiving to sew. If you mess up a line of stitching you can simply rip those stitches out and do them again. Over and over if needed. And the fabric will be able to do that many times, and still look brand new.

    Another great thing about sewing a Wool kilt In Accordance With (IAW) TAoK, is that the process is totally different from regular sewing like making a shirt or a pair of trousers. In kiltmaking, right up until the step where you cut away the inside of the pleats to thin the back of the kilt, you are dealing with one, long piece of fabric. This is totally different than regular sewing where you lay tissue paper pattern pieces on the fabric and cut out different shapes.

    If the size does not come out right, you don't like the stitching or the look, you can simply rip out all the stitching and you can begin again. And again if necessary.
    This cutting away inside the pleats is near the end of the process so you have many chances to make all the mistakes you want and you will not hurt the fabric or destroy your investment.

    If you really want a Denim kilt, great. But invest in a good sewing machine first. And then practice using that machine until you can sew an absolutely straight, true, line of stitching in Denim every time. Once sewn, these line of stitching will not come back out like hand stitches in Wool.

    You will need an industrial type of sewing machine.

    Not because they are more powerful. Any sewing machine will sew through multiple layers of leather. That is just a sewing machine salesman trick.
    The main difference between an industrial and a home sewing machine is that everything on the industrial machine is adjustable. (and repairable)
    You will need the pressure foot to be adjustable to at least 1/2 " high.



    Very, very few home sewing machines can be adjusted like this.

    And industrial sewing machines usually have a knee lift pressure foot. This leaves both hands free to guide the fabric but does take some practice to get used to.

    In my kilt shop I had 4 Pfaff 138-6 machines. (Model 138 with a 6mm zig-zag) These were the industry standard workhorses for over 50 years. My machines were made in 1962, 2 from 1964 and a 1972 machine. These are not made in Germany anymore, but used machines in perfect working order can be found for around $600.00-$800.00 usd.



    And yes, this is a machine stitched 16oz Wool Tartan kilt.

    Last edited by Steve Ashton; 22nd May 22 at 11:02 PM.
    Steve Ashton
    Forum Owner

  2. The Following 2 Users say 'Aye' to Steve Ashton For This Useful Post:


  3. #12
    Join Date
    21st May 22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Ashton View Post
    Denim is a 100% Cotton fabric. And like all Cotton fabrics it is rugged but continues to shrink over its lifetime.
    Thanks for the advice, Steve. In fact I read this in an earlier thread as well and I accept that washing my kilt will probably "ruin" it in the long run due to distorting and shrinking of the denim.

    As you suggest, I edge stitched all of the pleats inside and out as per instructions in other earlier threads. Also with only a few exceptions, I exclusively used machine stitching on the denim.

    One thing I forgot to mention to David though, before I started laying out my denim kilt, I overstitched the raw edges and ran the denim through my washer and dryer on "Sanitize" mode which is the hottest washer and dryer temperatures possible. I ran the denim through two separate wash and dry cycles before ironing it flat and then I started laying it out.

    This just reminded me that although I'm only remaking the pockets, I also need to do the same wash and dry treatment on the small bit of denim (1 ft wide) that I just picked up yesterday.

  4. #13
    Join Date
    6th May 22
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    Addendum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Waynetho View Post
    David, I'm almost one kilt ahead of you, also in dark blue denim, but I didn't use TAoK but rather the X-kilt instructions. If you choose the X-kilt method, most of it talks about box pleats but the last few pages are the reverse Kingussie (revK) addendum. I used the "revK" method for mine, with sixteen pleats. That is eight knife pleats on the left (pointing toward the back center line) and eight knife pleats on the right, both center pleats joining together in the back to make a reverse box pleat.

    As of now I have a wearable but not perfect kilt. I screwed up the pockets so I'm going to remake them, the kilt is using fabric straps instead of Velcro but I'm going to replace then with leather straps for stability of the apron, and the button hole for the left strap isn't just right yet so I'm going to rework that too. My next one when I get this just right will be a Thomson gray tartan (MacTavish Gray).

    I wish you luck. Just get the X-kilt document and take your time.

    I don’t see the reverse Kingussie addendum.

    David

  5. #14
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    21st May 22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddevine77 View Post
    I don’t see the reverse Kingussie addendum.

    David
    If you got the most up-to-date document, Rev-K will start at page 51 of 60. The top of the first page (page 51) looks like the attached illustration:
    Screenshot_20220524-082507_Drive.jpg

  6. #15
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    6th May 22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waynetho View Post
    If you got the most up-to-date document, Rev-K will start at page 51 of 60. The top of the first page (page 51) looks like the attached illustration:
    Screenshot_20220524-082507_Drive.jpg
    What would the address be?

    David

  7. #16
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    6th May 22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddevine77 View Post
    What would the address be?

    David
    Found it: http://www.xmarksthescot.com/Xkilt2ndedRevK.pdf

    David

  8. #17
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    6th May 22
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    [QUOTE=Steve Ashton;1399082]If I can offer some advice from an almost 20 year career in kiltmaking, making kilts, both hand stitched and machine stitched, out of almost every type of fabric imaginable.

    I found Denim fabric to be the absolute worse fabric to make a kilt from. It is the reason that you see so few Denim kilts offered by professional kilt shops.

    Denim is a 100% Cotton fabric. And like all Cotton fabrics it is rugged but continues to shrink over its lifetime. This is why it makes a good fabric for blue jeans and why you see the puckers at the side seams. Every time Denim is washed it shrinks a little. Your legs inside tend to stretch the fabric back out but in stretching it weakens the fabric. That is why the legs just above the knees is one of the places that the fabric, not the seams, fail first.

    Thank you

    I now realize that it is not the best way but I am already quite a ways down the path. So even though I may never wear it much I have learned a great deal.

    Next on to the tartan.

    David

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhockin View Post
    Since you are starting with a denim kilt, you might be interested in the instructions for the “X Kilt”:
    http://modelautoracing.com/kilt/X-Kilt_final2.pdf
    Why is the apron so narrow in the X-Kilt?

  10. #19
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    6th May 22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Ashton View Post
    If I can offer some advice from an almost 20 year career in kiltmaking, making kilts, both hand stitched and machine stitched, out of almost every type of fabric imaginable.

    I found Denim fabric to be the absolute worse fabric to make a kilt from. It is the reason that you see so few Denim kilts offered by professional kilt shops.

    Denim is a 100% Cotton fabric. And like all Cotton fabrics it is rugged but continues to shrink over its lifetime. This is why it makes a good fabric for blue jeans and why you see the puckers at the side seams. Every time Denim is washed it shrinks a little. Your legs inside tend to stretch the fabric back out but in stretching it weakens the fabric. That is why the legs just above the knees is one of the places that the fabric, not the seams, fail first.

    A kilt has no legs inside the pleats to stretch the pleats back out so they will shrink up to the point where they tend to splay out sort of like a ballet tutu.

    Cotton fabrics also do not hold a crease and wrinkle easily and fast. This is why cotton shirts needed to be ironed each time they were washed.
    This means that a Denim kilt will not hold the pleat creases. You must topstitch each and every pleat edge, inside and out, for the garment to retain its shape.
    And then iron out the wrinkles after every washing.

    The Art of Kiltmaking covers the methods to make a kilt from hard worsted spun, tightly woven, Wool fabric. It does not cover the methods to make a kilt from any other types of fabrics.
    TAoK covers the methods to hand stitch Wool fabrics and does not cover the methods needed to machine stitch a kilt.

    And as you have chosen Denim, hand stitching will be very difficult. Bordering on impossible, due to how hard and stiff the fabric is and how hard it is to push a hand sewing needle through it.

    I do not know how many times I have heard the argument that goes sort of like - "I will make a Denim 'practice' kilt first. Then I'll make a Wool Tartan kilt."

    And what is the result of thinking like this? In the end you have what looks like a practice kilt. And are never satisfied and happy with the result and you never get around to making your Tartan kilt.
    Where if you start with good quality kilt Wool you can practice all you want - rip out as necessary - and in the end you have your own Tartan kilt that you can proudly wear and boast - "I made it myself".

    My advice was always, that if your final goal is to make a Wool Tartan kilt, to buy the best, highest quality, Wool Tartan fabric that you can afford. This will be almost exactly the same as if you ordered a custom made kilt. The cost of the fabric is set by the mill.
    Where you save money by making your own kilt is in the labor.

    So buy the good stuff first.

    And one of the great things about good quality Wool fabric is that it is amazingly easy and forgiving to sew. If you mess up a line of stitching you can simply rip those stitches out and do them again. Over and over if needed. And the fabric will be able to do that many times, and still look brand new.

    Another great thing about sewing a Wool kilt In Accordance With (IAW) TAoK, is that the process is totally different from regular sewing like making a shirt or a pair of trousers. In kiltmaking, right up until the step where you cut away the inside of the pleats to thin the back of the kilt, you are dealing with one, long piece of fabric. This is totally different than regular sewing where you lay tissue paper pattern pieces on the fabric and cut out different shapes.

    If the size does not come out right, you don't like the stitching or the look, you can simply rip out all the stitching and you can begin again. And again if necessary.
    This cutting away inside the pleats is near the end of the process so you have many chances to make all the mistakes you want and you will not hurt the fabric or destroy your investment.

    If you really want a Denim kilt, great. But invest in a good sewing machine first. And then practice using that machine until you can sew an absolutely straight, true, line of stitching in Denim every time. Once sewn, these line of stitching will not come back out like hand stitches in Wool.

    You will need an industrial type of sewing machine.

    Not because they are more powerful. Any sewing machine will sew through multiple layers of leather. That is just a sewing machine salesman trick.
    The main difference between an industrial and a home sewing machine is that everything on the industrial machine is adjustable. (and repairable)
    You will need the pressure foot to be adjustable to at least 1/2 " high.



    Very, very few home sewing machines can be adjusted like this.

    And industrial sewing machines usually have a knee lift pressure foot. This leaves both hands free to guide the fabric but does take some practice to get used to.

    In my kilt shop I had 4 Pfaff 138-6 machines. (Model 138 with a 6mm zig-zag) These were the industry standard workhorses for over 50 years. My machines were made in 1962, 2 from 1964 and a 1972 machine. These are not made in Germany anymore, but used machines in perfect working order can be found for around $600.00-$800.00 usd.



    And yes, this is a machine stitched 16oz Wool Tartan kilt.


    Thanks again for all of your information. You stated that you have made kilts out of many different materials, is there any others that make a reasonably good kilt?

    I do have use of a reasonably good sewing machine, Juki, but will probably not be using any cotton or denim.

    I hope that this finds you well and that you are enjoying.

    David

  11. #20
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    David, please note that the most of the professional kilt makers have stated that hand stitching is the only reliable way to make a quality traditional kilt. To make sure all of the pleats line up just so, the stitches should be done from the front but in a way so they do not show. I know Rocky from USA Kilts developed a method to machine stitch part of their kilts but I understand that it's a guarded trade secret. I've imagined a method for machine stitching the pleats from the back, that I'm going to try on my first traditional but until I see the results I'm going to reserve judgement and if it doesn't works I might end up having to redo the pleats with all hand stitching.

    I haven't started my traditional yet because I'm still pending acquisition of a decent workspace (4x8 melamine sheet on saw horses, with wool blanket on top).

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