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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troglodyte View Post
    This is a very cuious dilemma for a reguar kilt-wearer in Scotland to understand.

    Whilst Kirkin' o' the Tartan ceremony is known about, it is something I have never participated in, or seen done.

    At our periodic clan gatherings, the North American contingent arrange one of these church services as an exlusive event, and non-American clansmen are not invited - even the clan chief.

    What sort of event is it, and why would there be (perhaps only perceived) dress regulations? Is normal 'Sunday Best' church-going outfit not appropriate for kirkin' the tartan?

    The kilt is appropriate whenever it is appropriate to wear trousers, but the level of dress formality is governed by the occasion or situation. For a church service, suit-and-tie or jacket-and-tie has always been the convention here, although recent years has seen this sort of 'formality' fall away.

    A Prince Charlie coatee is (despite being seen increasingly more often during the day) strictly an evening black-tie event garment, and would be quite inappropriate for a day-time church service.

    Unless the rest of the congregation will be dressed casually (jeans and tee-shirt kind of thing), kilt, an Argyle jacket and collar and tie is what I would recommend, particularly as it will be a tartan-themed event.

    The trick is to remember that Highland dress at any level of formality is not theatrical or fancy dress costume, and any element that needs justifying or explaining ought to be left off. In other words, carry it off with natural confidence, as to the manner born, as they say.
    The reason for the event is a 230th anniversary celebration for the church. That's not really noteworthy by European standards, but the church was founded before the official founding date of our city. As a Presbyterian church they're including the Kirkin as a special element for a unique event.

    I never considered PC as it's in the morning. Coat and tie would be my preference, but the Argyll jacket I ordered didn't come in and the old one doesn't fit, hence the question of what to do instead. It's chilly enough that a sweater will work, so I'm doing that over a shirt and tie. Maybe not ideal, but I think respectful of the event, which is my goal.

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liam View Post
    For those of you from Scotland that are confused by the ‘Kirkin’ of the tartan’ Do not for a minute think that this is a North American thing. I first heard about it from this forum.
    Well alright, so where did “ Kirking of the tartan” originate from and when? I think like you Liam, I first heard of this event on this website and I could not say with any certainty that I have ever discovered where it originated from. Answers, anyone?
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

  4. #13
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    Jock... you miss my point.. I was subtly trying to point out that North America is made up of 3 very distinct countries and There is no history of ‘Kirkin’ of the tartan’ in Western Canada. Others may speak to a possible history of it in Ontario or Nova Scotia, but I think it likely originated South of the 49th.
    "Good judgement comes from experience, and experience
    well, that comes from poor judgement."
    A. A. Milne

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  6. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liam View Post
    Jock... you miss my point.. I was subtly trying to point out that North America is made up of 3 very distinct countries and There is no history of ‘Kirkin’ of the tartan’ in Western Canada. Others may speak to a possible history of it in Ontario or Nova Scotia, but I think it likely originated South of the 49th.
    https://holytrinityoxfordmd.org/kirkin-o-the-tartans/ has an explanation that I've also read elsewhere. It's clearly from the U.S.A. although some Canadian churches have adopted it where it suited their purposes.
    Rev'd Father Bill White: Retired Parish Priest & Elementary Headmaster. Lover of God, dogs, most people, joy, tradition, humour & clarity. Legion Padre, theologian, teacher, philosopher, linguist, encourager of hearts & souls & a firm believer in dignity, decency, & duty. A proud Canadian Sinclair.

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  8. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liam View Post
    Jock... you miss my point.. I was subtly trying to point out that North America is made up of 3 very distinct countries and There is no history of ‘Kirkin’ of the tartan’ in Western Canada. Others may speak to a possible history of it in Ontario or Nova Scotia, but I think it likely originated South of the 49th.
    Indeed I did miss the subtlety in your post and actually we over here ,perhaps incorrectly, include the USA which includes Alaska as one country and Canada as another Country in the general term for the continent of North America and of course not forgetting Mexico which could/should be included too.No doubt some geographical expert may be able to explain the finer points.

    I was also spreading the possible responsibility for this event in question being thought up!

    Nevertheless if I have caused hurt and upset to one of the above mentioned countries then I do most humbly apologise to all.

    After all this furore that I have unwittingly caused, I expect that some un-named chap in Scotland a couple of centuries ago thought up the idea?!
    Last edited by Jock Scot; 29th October 22 at 10:13 AM. Reason: added another observation.
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

  9. #16
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    The event went well yesterday. We were warmly welcomed to the church and enjoyed a great service and lunch afterwards. I went with my Campbell of Cawdor ancient kilt, bottle green hose, red flashes, shirt and tie with grey, collared sweater. As expected attendees were a mix of a bit of everything, including the inevitable PC even though it was 11:00 in the morning. The rabble will be happy to hear that there was not, however, a fly plaid to be found! There was even, quite surprisingly, a Claymore carried by one gentleman, which seemed rather out of place in a church service but the church seemed to have no problem with it.

    On the topic of the history of Kirkin' of the Tartan, we got an interesting history lesson from the pastor. According to his account, the roots of the practice go back to the ban on wearing tartan after the battle of Culloden. The story is that Scots, in protest of the order, would pin a swatch of tartan on the inside of their jackets for church and, at a recognized sign from their pastor during the service, would touch their jackets over the hidden tartan to honor their clan (and perhaps also spite the English). The service as done yesterday did originate in the northeastern United States in the 1940s as both a cultural heritage event and fundraising initiative to support Scotland after World War 2. Any or all of that may be more or less accurate, but it was the history presented as part of the ceremony.

    EDIT - and this was largely unnecessary after Father Bill's helpful link, which I of course failed to read before making my post. Apologies Father Bill!
    Last edited by TNScotsman; 31st October 22 at 06:13 AM.

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  11. #17
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    Glad it went well!

    I too was kilted last Sunday, the local Presbyterian Church having a special Reformation Sunday service, and me being asked to play the pipes.

    There were several gents in kilts but alas no Prince Charlies in evidence, the men wearing either jumpers or simple plain shirt & tie with their kilts.

    That is, except for the Pastor! Who made quite a show in matching tartan kilt & bias-cut waistcoat, the gift of some members.

    This was my kit Sunday



    About "Kirkin' o' the Tartans" I was asked to pipe for one of those many years ago. It was the first time I'd heard of them, and I can't recall hearing about one around here since.

    At that event, which was at 10am, the dress code appeared to have been "if you've got it, wear it".

    The men were in black Prince Charlies, white hose, Viking-laced Ghillies, bonnets, dirks, and plaids, and every gent had at least a dozen things pinned to his jacket. Since I didn't get the memo I was dressed more or less like the photo above.
    Last edited by OC Richard; 3rd November 22 at 03:42 PM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

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  13. #18
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    Ah.

    Both the Kirkin' o' the Tartans and Brigadoon were created in New York in the 1940s.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

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  15. #19
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    My preference is for Argyll jacket and waistcoat, I'm just without one for the moment, so it was jumper over shirt and tie. The church we visited had a very nice presentation of the colors by the Scottish American Military Association, wich I thought was a good addition to the day. They were in their official uniform of kilts with khaki shirts and military decorations.

    I generally follow a less is more approach, and don't even own a pair of white or cream hose!

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  17. #20
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    There are two churches in my area that do similar services. One in October and they call it a Kirkin' of the Tartans. The other I believe in May, and they just call it Scottish Sunday. I have been to both. One is decidedly more formal although both are morning events.

    When I was with my state Saint Andrews Society color guard, I often found myself as the only member at an event due to my state's geography. I made a uniform up that was similar to what SAMS wears but with a white shirt, and of course no medals. I also had a black sweater for the colder weather.

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