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Thread: Assumed Arms

  1. #1
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    Assumed Arms

    I had these registered with the Heraldic Society of Westphalia in my father's name. I don't display them much, as heraldry is more of an outgrowth of my interests in medieval history and graphic design than a social statement. Emblazoned by myself.Click image for larger version. 

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    In terms of design, I've always found central European heraldry very attractive.
    Last edited by Silmakhor; 28th February 23 at 06:41 AM.

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  3. #2
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    Wonderful arms. I just assumed mine last year. I dug into heraldry a while back while studying my Scottish roots. My styling is indeed Scottish but sadly I have not found a connection all the way back to Scotland and am unable to apply for a grant of arms from the Lord Lyon. I feel very much the same regarding my arms as an outgrowth of study vs social statement. Mine are registered with the International Society of Commoners Heraldry.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #3
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    Very classy looking!

    I probably could have arms registered and designed by Lord Lyon's court, as I have documentary evidence for a direct male ancestor who lived in County Down at a time when it was under British government.

    I just don't have the $$$ ;)
    Last edited by Silmakhor; 28th February 23 at 09:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silmakhor View Post
    Very classy looking!

    I probably could have arms registered and designed by Lord Lyon's court, as I have documentary evidence for a direct male ancestor who lived in County Down at a time when it was under British government.

    I just don't have the $$$ ;)
    Thanks! I too have an ancestor from Ireland (Co. Monaghan) but unfortunately, you can only petition as you describe through the College of Arms. As a foreigner, we must have an ancestor AND living relative in Scotland to petition for arms from LL. I plan to apply for arms from the Chief Herald of Ireland, but that is a ways off (also $$$ not currently available ) .

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  8. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by MurrayInGA View Post
    Thanks! I too have an ancestor from Ireland (Co. Monaghan) but unfortunately, you can only petition as you describe through the College of Arms. As a foreigner, we must have an ancestor AND living relative in Scotland to petition for arms from LL. I plan to apply for arms from the Chief Herald of Ireland, but that is a ways off (also $$$ not currently available ) .
    Once upon a time I knew about the "living relative in Scotland" bit, but seem to have lost that information. Thanks for the reminder!

  9. #6
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    I once had the opportunity to discuss this very topic with LL Robin Blair when he visited the Glasgow (KY) Highland Games many years ago (2004). His suggestion was to petition for a coat of arms for/in honor of the deceased Scottish ancestor in the paternal line (not requiring a living Scottish relative for that one). Split the cost with their living descendants, the petitioner's cousins - if they can be tracked down and convinced to do it!

    THEN, each of the new armiger's descendants can request a matriculation of those arms for themselves, appropriate to their position in the family (generation-wise) with the appropriate differences for different branches. Individually less expensive than doing one for just themselves.

    Photographic evidence (that's me on the right of the photo, LL Blair's left). As I recall, it was a scorcher that day. High 90's F and 75-80% humidity, so no ties or tweed in sight.



    In my case, since my family hasn't been able to trace back to Scotland itself, my family COULD petition for arms in honor of the earliest ancestor we've found, born in the Colonies well before the 1783 Treaty of Paris ending the Revolutionary War - and therefore a subject of the Crown. (This ancestor was born around 1767. His father was born sometime around 1737-1740, but we haven't been able to *prove* that connection yet. ) It's a $$$'s thing for me, as well as getting all of the documentation for definitive proof and not just genealogical supposition.

    A friend suggested the below coat of arms for me, based off the Scott of Buccleuch arms (the primary Scott line), if I choose to use them as assumed arms, without registering them. (If we turn out descending from a different branch of the Scott's, then we'd use THAT branches' arms as the starting point.) If my extended family were to petition Lord Lyon for arms today, we'd have to use Scott of Buccleuch to start with, then go from there with whatever changes Lyon would think appropriate, with our input as to what to use to differentiate our branch of the family. Then individuals interested in matriculating and registering their own arms would have to accept Lyon's choices for the differences to use for descendancy on each branch (different borders/'bordures', colors, charges/devices, etc.).

    To the right is the Scott of Buccleuch arms for comparison. The Kentucky long rifle represents my family's 200-year lineage in the Commonwealth, as my family settled in what is now Green County, KY prior to the birth of the Commonwealth on June 1, 1792. The embattled bend represents the pioneer forts of both Kentucky and Southwest Virginia, where they had settled in 1774 before the move to Kentucky. The blazon (heraldic language describing the arms) for my assumed arms would be something like this: "Or, on a bend embattled azure, a mullet between two crescents of the first, overlaying a Kentucky long rifle proper, sinister." I might have the last part mixed around, but it's close.

    Proposed arms: Scott of Buccleuch:
    Last edited by EagleJCS; 1st March 23 at 07:20 AM.
    John

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  11. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by EagleJCS View Post
    I once had the opportunity to discuss this very topic with LL Robin Blair when he visited the Glasgow (KY) Highland Games many years ago (2004). His suggestion was to petition for a coat of arms for/in honor of the deceased Scottish ancestor in the paternal line (not requiring a living Scottish relative for that one). Split the cost with their living descendants, the petitioner's cousins - if they can be tracked down and convinced to do it!

    THEN, each of the new armiger's descendants can request a matriculation of those arms for themselves, appropriate to their position in the family (generation-wise) with the appropriate differences for different branches. Individually less expensive than doing one for just themselves.

    Photographic evidence (that's me on the right of the photo, LL Blair's left). As I recall, it was a scorcher that day. High 90's F and 75-80% humidity, so no ties or tweed in sight.



    In my case, since my family hasn't been able to trace back to Scotland itself, my family COULD petition for arms in honor of the earliest ancestor we've found, born in the Colonies well before the 1783 Treaty of Paris ending the Revolutionary War - and therefore a subject of the Crown. (This ancestor was born around 1767. His father was born sometime around 1737-1740, but we haven't been able to *prove* that connection yet. ) It's a $$$'s thing for me, as well as getting all of the documentation for definitive proof and not just genealogical supposition.

    A friend suggested the below coat of arms for me, based off the Scott of Buccleuch arms (the primary Scott line), if I choose to use them as assumed arms, without registering them. (If we turn out descending from a different branch of the Scott's, then we'd use THAT branches' arms as the starting point.) If my extended family were to petition Lord Lyon for arms today, we'd have to use Scott of Buccleuch to start with, then go from there with whatever changes Lyon would think appropriate, with our input as to what to use to differentiate our branch of the family. Then individuals interested in matriculating and registering their own arms would have to accept Lyon's choices for the differences to use for descendancy on each branch (different borders/'bordures', colors, charges/devices, etc.).

    To the right is the Scott of Buccleuch arms for comparison. The Kentucky long rifle represents my family's 200-year lineage in the Commonwealth, as my family settled in what is now Green County, KY prior to the birth of the Commonwealth on June 1, 1792. The embattled bend represents the pioneer forts of both Kentucky and Southwest Virginia, where they had settled in 1774 before the move to Kentucky. The blazon (heraldic language describing the arms) for my assumed arms would be something like this: "Or, on a bend embattled azure, a mullet between two crescents of the first, overlaying a Kentucky long rifle proper, sinister." I might have the last part mixed around, but it's close.

    Proposed arms: Scott of Buccleuch:
    Very cool!

    I have an ancestor of German ethnicity who lived in Pennsylvania named Benjamin Schrecengost. He made well-regarded long rifles similar to Kentucky long rifles.

  12. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silmakhor View Post
    Very cool!

    I have an ancestor of German ethnicity who lived in Pennsylvania named Benjamin Schrecengost. He made well-regarded long rifles similar to Kentucky long rifles.
    Some people say that 'Kentucky long rifle' is a misnomer, as many of the early rifles used by the Kentucky long hunters (and in the Revolutionary War) were actually made in Pennsylvania. Later rifles actually made in Kentucky were based on the Pennsylvania models.
    John

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