Correct shirt for semi-formal (aka, back tie)?

[TheVintageLibertine]

I recently got a great price on a vintage(ish) Agyle jacket in black barathea, which I plan to use as the equivalent of a dinner jacket for events where a Prince Charlie and waistcoat are a bit too much.

What is considered the proper evening shirt for that mode of highland formalwear?

When dressing down my tuxedo by wearing a cummerbund in lieu of a waistcoat or wearing a dinner jacket, I usually wear a pleat-front evening shirt with a fall collar, because that is, more-or-less, the etiquette/custom/convention with Saxon formalwear.

Does that etiquette/custom/convention hold true for highland formalwear?

[kilted2000]

I like what is called a marcella front shirt like this https://www.charlestyrwhitt.com/us/m...OL0154WHT.html

Personally I'm not a fan of wing collar or pleated shirts but that's just me. Really any white French cuff shirt without a button down collar will work.

Do yourself a favor and wear a black bowtie you tie yourself. It's easy and looks much better.

[Kitfoxdave]

I like what is called a marcella front shirt like this https://www.charlestyrwhitt.com/us/m...OL0154WHT.html

Personally I'm not a fan of wing collar or pleated shirts but that's just me. Really any white French cuff shirt without a button down collar will work.

Do yourself a favor and wear a black bowtie you tie yourself. It's easy and looks much better.

I am not a fan of the pleated shirt style either. I purchased a french cuffed white shirt made with a twill weave with a mildly pronounced rib for a bit of texture. I had the collar altered by removing the upper part. Paired this with a black silk cravat with coachman's knot and a clan tie pin.

I am aware not your traditional 1920's highland catalogue photo, but it does look sharp and properly put together.

[figheadair]

I recently got a great price on a vintage(ish) Agyle jacket in black barathea, which I plan to use as the equivalent of a dinner jacket for events where a Prince Charlie and waistcoat are a bit too much.

What is considered the proper evening shirt for that mode of highland formalwear?

When dressing down my tuxedo by wearing a cummerbund in lieu of a waistcoat or wearing a dinner jacket, I usually wear a pleat-front evening shirt with a fall collar, because that is, more-or-less, the etiquette/custom/convention with Saxon formalwear.

Does that etiquette/custom/convention hold true for highland formalwear?

An Argyle jacket is a relatively modern concept that people seem to wear on a range of occasions. People new to Highland wear often tend to overdress. The key here is the type of event you are attending. If it's formal then I would have thought you PC would be fine. If you choose the Argyle in place of a PC then the equivalent shirt and tie would be appropriate. I prefer a Marcella shirt with turn-down collar and self-tie black bow tie (a wing collar is reserved for White Tie in my book). But, if you are wearing it for an evening event such as a reception, drinks etc., then a business type shirt, plain or lightly patterned, and a standard tie is appropriate.

[Jock Scot]

Is there a definition of what "semi formal" attire is? To this admiitedly rather old fashioned chap, this idea of "semi formal" is a complete mystery to me. To my mind we have "smart" which requires at least a tweed jacket, smart trousers(not jeans!) and drop down tie, or, a suit and drop down tie, or, in kilt terms, a tweed jacket and a drop down tie. Or, we have formal, which requires, in kilt terms, a black bow tie(yes other colours can, unfortunately, be worn) and assorted formal jackets .

This idea of "semi formal" and its requirements is, apparently, a real mystery for so many others too.

[figheadair]

This idea of "semi formal" and its requirements is, apparently, a real mystery for so many others too.

Agreed. I think that this is/was originally an Americanism. Similarly, I don't recall attending anything in the UK where the dress code was Formal. Like you, I have a military background and am comfortable with:

Casual
Smart Casual
Cocktail
Black Tie (with or without decorations)
White Tie

[TheVintageLibertine]

Thanks for the suggestions, all!

For clarification, in the UK (or, more specifically, England) “formal” historically referred to what we Americans call “white-tie” and includes tails for the evening or morning dress for daytime. “Semi-formal” which Americans call “black-tie” refers to tuxedos for evening or the old-timely daywear London bankers/businessmen wear in Monty Python skits.

Within, semi-formal there are a lot of unwritten rules for formality, which the Georgians invented to prevent us hoi polloi from fitting in … (joking).

Basically, I live in Southern California, so waistcoats are often overkill due to the mild climate and general casualness.

As an example of events where a PC might be too much, at bougie holiday or new year parties here where the dress code is black tie, men often wear festive dinner jackets in bright colors or tartan. I bought a black Argyle for such occasions because it provides a more contemporary version of formalwear than a PC with waistcoat which looks straight out of the 1920s.

[OC Richard]

Highland Dress was fairly sorted between Day and Evening by Edwardian times, c.f. Loudon MacQueen Douglas' guide to Highland Dress published in 1914 giving the clear demarcation between the two categories which persists to this day.

I've seen plenty of photos of events where the "Saxon" men are wearing white ties and the gents in Highland Evening Dress are wearing black ties, which suggests that Highland Evening Dress doesn't have one-to-one correspondences to "Saxon" categories.

Then there's the matter of the lace Jabot often worn with Highland Evening Dress, obviously having no "Saxon" counterpart.

My impression is that the whole "semi-dress" thing was a creature of Kilt Hire, due to Highland Evening Dress requiring tartan/diced full hose, buckled brogues, and seal Evening sporran, all these things being seen as too expensive. So a new sort of Highland outfit was cooked up, with an Evening jacket (generally black Coatee or Argyll), nasty cheap white hose, Ghillie brogues, and a new "semi-dress" category of sporran specifically invented for this Hire outfit.

I have some catalogues from 1983 which form a snapshot of this then-nascent form of dress. An Edinburgh firm offers a dozen or so traditional Evening sporrans, a dozen or so traditional Day sporrans, and a few they call "Day-Evening" sporrans.

In any case I and many others view this as being Hire stuff and not impacting the traditional Day and Evening categories.

There is this interesting mini-article in the 1936 Andersons catalogue, which speaks of wearing "a jacket of the ordinary Day shape" (Argyll) in dark grey or black when "Saxon" men are in Lounge Suits:

[bookish]

Agreed. I think that this is/was originally an Americanism. Similarly, I don't recall attending anything in the UK where the dress code was Formal. Like you, I have a military background and am comfortable with:

Casual
Smart Casual
Cocktail
Black Tie (with or without decorations)
White Tie

I wasn't raised with class, and I mean that in more than one way. (I do have basic manners, just no etiquette training). I have 2 questions, and that may take this thread more off topic, however, it relates to the varying dress codes. Firstly, how should one treat the conventions of dress listed at the Askival of Strathearn website's list as an attempt to lay some groundrules? https://askivalofstrathearn.co.uk/a-good-looking-kilt/

I'm sure I've seen this list repeated by a couple of websites, but I wouldn't assume all elements are necessary, fashionable, or tasteful.

Secondly, where does one find an authoritative and contemporary classification of these dress code events, and the classification of Highland dress vs non-highlandwear?

The original question raises related questions about the styles of individual pieces of clothing relative to the event. Where there is doubt, I feel like non-highlandwear-specific
descriptions of what's appropriate apply. However, I'd like to have good reference material and examples as I construct my own rubric.

[kilted2000]

Have you seen this: https://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/...xamples-85511/