Correct shirt for semi-formal (aka, back tie)?

[Kitfoxdave]

I like what is called a marcella front shirt like this https://www.charlestyrwhitt.com/us/m...OL0154WHT.html

Personally I'm not a fan of wing collar or pleated shirts but that's just me. Really any white French cuff shirt without a button down collar will work.

Do yourself a favor and wear a black bowtie you tie yourself. It's easy and looks much better.

I am not a fan of the pleated shirt style either. I purchased a french cuffed white shirt made with a twill weave with a mildly pronounced rib for a bit of texture. I had the collar altered by removing the upper part. Paired this with a black silk cravat with coachman's knot and a clan tie pin.

I am aware not your traditional 1920's highland catalogue photo, but it does look sharp and properly put together.

[bookish]

Agreed. I think that this is/was originally an Americanism. Similarly, I don't recall attending anything in the UK where the dress code was Formal. Like you, I have a military background and am comfortable with:

Casual
Smart Casual
Cocktail
Black Tie (with or without decorations)
White Tie

I wasn't raised with class, and I mean that in more than one way. (I do have basic manners, just no etiquette training). I have 2 questions, and that may take this thread more off topic, however, it relates to the varying dress codes. Firstly, how should one treat the conventions of dress listed at the Askival of Strathearn website's list as an attempt to lay some groundrules? https://askivalofstrathearn.co.uk/a-good-looking-kilt/

I'm sure I've seen this list repeated by a couple of websites, but I wouldn't assume all elements are necessary, fashionable, or tasteful.

Secondly, where does one find an authoritative and contemporary classification of these dress code events, and the classification of Highland dress vs non-highlandwear?

The original question raises related questions about the styles of individual pieces of clothing relative to the event. Where there is doubt, I feel like non-highlandwear-specific
descriptions of what's appropriate apply. However, I'd like to have good reference material and examples as I construct my own rubric.

[kilted2000]

Have you seen this: https://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/...xamples-85511/

[Jock Scot]

Have you seen this: https://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/...xamples-85511/

A very useful thread as a guide on what to wear on the various kilted occasions of today. Yes! It had/has its critics, but on the whole, I think it was and is, a valiant attempt in trying to suggest modest, sympathetic alternatives to the more outdated, theatrical and sometimes unsuitable forms of kilt attire, to fit in with todays assorted kilted needs. In that, I think, the thread mentioned above, has given many kilt wearers considerable food for thought and on occasion, more than a little helpful guidance.

[bookish]

Have you seen this: https://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/...xamples-85511/

I have previously, and thank you for the reminder. I'll assume "smart casual" is synonymous with "daywear", though I'm not sure what constitutes "cocktail".

I'll admit to mostly perusing the pictures on the thread previously. I'll take some more time to digest the text, as I've just done a quick read through, and that won't stick.

I've done some previous exploration of categories that are not discussed here, such as "business casual" and "business formal," plus the aformentioned "semi-formal." I still don't have an internalized guide for myself, and I've not had feedback on my efforts to date.

I'll leave the topic here as it is. I'm gathering my outfit for my first Burns night supper with my nearest St. Andrew's society, so I'm fretting a bit on this general topic. It'll be my first impression on the community. I'll post my outfit elsewhere on the forum once the final detail for my ensemble arrives.

I'll likely post other "fit checks" looking for specific feedback.

[Father Bill]

It's probably important to remember that most of these 'titles' are descriptive rather than formulative. Such terms as 'business formal' and 'business informal' have no anchor in tradition, history, or widespread interpretation. They're just what somebody invented to describe a diaphanous idea that they were formulating, and what somebody else creatively interprets it to mean.

Personally, I tend to envision a spectrum of dress with the intent to come down somewhere on the spectrum that may or may not appear appropriate to other people attending an event.

Good bloody luck with that!

[bookish]

It's probably important to remember that most of these 'titles' are descriptive rather than formulative. Such terms as 'business formal' and 'business informal' have no anchor in tradition, history, or widespread interpretation. They're just what somebody invented to describe a diaphanous idea that they were formulating, and what somebody else creatively interprets it to mean.

Personally, I tend to envision a spectrum of dress with the intent to come down somewhere on the spectrum that may or may not appear appropriate to other people attending an event.

Good bloody luck with that!

A fair assessment. No matter the event, if someone is trying to find fault, or to justify why I or anyone else are not fit for an event, there is nothing one can do but move confidently, be polite, and engage fully in the spirit of the affair.

[Jock Scot]

A fair assessment. No matter the event, if someone is trying to find fault, or to justify why I or anyone else are not fit for an event, there is nothing one can do but move confidently, be polite, and engage fully in the spirit of the affair.

I think as civilians, one does not need to be too precise with everyday kilt attire or, any event, casual ,or formal, for that matter. Just like our choices with trousers, pullover/ sports jacket/ suit/ tie/no tie etc., and of course it depends on what we are actually doing. So an open mind is required at all times, particularly when looking at pictures as we will not necessarily know the circumstances of the entire event.

[DCampbell16B]

I don't want to go too far off topic, but at this site https://askivalofstrathearn.co.uk/a-good-looking-kilt/, and one other place I saw some undetermined time ago, it states that red and black diced hose are reserved for the military (and vets?). Is there any truth to this? I've never heard this outside of these two sites. Certainly no other reliable site, like this one.

(Perhaps the reason I only saw it one other place is that one copied the other?)

[jsrnephdoc]

I don't want to go too far off topic, but at this site https://askivalofstrathearn.co.uk/a-good-looking-kilt/, and one other place I saw some undetermined time ago, it states that red and black diced hose are reserved for the military (and vets?)

Well, if it's a "thing" it's not been rigidly enforced. My Anglican Priest dad was never in the military because of some REAL medical issues, but here's an Instamatic era photo taken of him several decades back at a Clan Donnachaidh gathering in Pitlochry. (He's the guy in coke-bottle-bottom spectacles from back before cataract extractions were paired with intra-ocular lens implants)

The guy immediately to HIS right is beaming, not scowling in disapproval. I don't know his military background, but I do know that at the time he was the clan chieftain. (My sister is dead center). The Chieftan's spouse is the other bracketing end-piece. I don't know what happened to my mom—she did buy in to my dad's love of his family origins sufficiently to have a kilt and waistcoat. In fact, we buried her in them when she died (accidentally) at age 92. The undertaker dressed her with THE classic kilting mistake for her pre-requiem Eucharist viewing—pleats in FRONT:

One more. I'm now at 4 kilts in my collection, and NONE of them is in that stoplight red Robertson Dress tartan. Just TOO MUCH RED for me.