is it possible Make acrylic flame resistant?

[Iainkp]

I was reading about cotton and found that some cottons are treated with chemicals to make them flame retardant and that got me thinking, could the same be done with acrylic?

i'm not talking about being able to stand next to a candle but more what happens if your lighting a cigar or pipe, or if your friend who isn't paying attention flicks his cigarete butty in the wrong direction putting a dime shaped hole in your kilt (or jacket in my case) - maybe hopefully finding a solution that would atleast, minimize damage?

I did manage upon this http://www.ehow.com/how_5001660_make...retardant.html but haven't tested it yet and was wondering if anyone else has tried this or has heard of store bought chemicals that would be kilt friendly?


Thanks


Iain

[ccga3359]

I'm not a chemist but I'd have to think that no you can't make acrylic flame retardant. A general rule of thumb that I follow is that natural fibres are less flammable than man-made. Acrylic and polyester are plastics, petroleum based. As such I would think that they are less than able to absorb you listed Borax solution. I used to work on a volunteer marine rescue boat, a few years back they removed the option of wearing jeans as part of the uniform and went with a standard polyester uniform trouser. It made us look spiffier but working an an aluminium deck in the height of a Canadian summer in trousers that don't breath made for the slightest effort makes one sweat profusely. I always argued that we be allowed to wear shorts in lieu of jeans for safety reasons. The fight I got was because we work with gasoline dewatering pumps with there exposed exhaust that it would not be safe. Long story longer, it would be better that my bare shin touch that exhaust for an instance than to have a uniformed trouser leg touch. Each would leave a nasty burn but a polyester pant leg would actually melt into my skin making that burn worse.

What does this have to do with acrylic kilts, many of the common plastics melt at 400F, some (like our polypropylene towline would melt at 200F, a temperature capable from friction alone). A cigarette burns (I believe) at 450F. Whereas many natural fibres reach a flash point at about 600F. In short Acrylic kilt and cigarette will be instant melt regardless or any treatment. Wool or cotton although will burn eventually should be able to handle a quick brush against a lit cigarette with minimal or no damage (although any fuzz might get singed). There are man-made fibres that would be better than even wool, for instance, Nomex or Kevlar (aramid) but they would make for a very expensive but unique kilt.

[Bugbear]

Off the top of my head, no. Acrylic has a very low melting temperature, so it is partly liquefying if, for example, you put a hot iron on it.

If you were to stand in front of a open, heated raku kiln with an acrylic or rayon garment it would suddenly melt into your skin like a liquid film. I don't think borax would have any effect on that, it would help prevent wool or cotton from burning, though.

[The Wizard of BC]

From a strictly engineering stand point you are talking about two different things here.

The burn you experienced in your Acrylic Kilt would not be stopped with the addition of a flame retardant.

The temperature that would cause a fabric to get a hole from a cigarette and the temperature at which it would burst into flame are not the same. In fibers like Acrylic the two temps. are closer together than for a fabric like wool or cotton.

If you add a flame retardant the temperature at which a fiber will ignite and burst into flame is made higher. But the fabric will still scorch or melt.

So, I'm sorry, but adding a flame retardant to an Acrylic Kilt will not prevent cigarette burns and holes.

But luckily, the melting of the fabric from a cigarette will seal the hole and should prevent it from fraying later.

[Riverkilt]

Wear the kilt underwater.....

[Ozark Ridge Rider]

I just finished hemming (thanks to stitch diagrams on here a few weeks ago) a Stillwater acrylic to shorten it. Had to cut off a bit of the fringe/flap to keep the hem from being too bulky. I put it in the fireplace for a test. Yes, it burned, but slower than I anticipated, and was not at all flashy.

btw, I had no concept of how big a job that turned out to be. Took a lot more stitches than I would ever have imagined. Worked out OK, though.

[GG]

I put it in the fireplace for a test. Yes, it burned, but slower than I anticipated, and was not at all flashy.

Exactly! A lot of our clothes are made of fabrics containing more or less acrylic and you practically never hear about people getting harmed. Why should it be worse with kilts?

Yes, we have seen photos of acrylic and always Pakistani kilts in flames.
All of these photos have, to my best knowledge, been made by or on behalf of Scottish kilt makers. Just wonder what they did to the kilts before setting fire to them?

Always be aware of the source and possible motives.

Greg

[pakiltedff]

I work as a fire inspector and have seen many items treated with flame retardant for stage use near pyrotechnics. The most common product I have seen is NY fire shield. It comes in a spray container and is not cheap. If applied correctly it should prevent almost anything catching fire but will allow some scorching and melting to occur. The other problem with spray on fire treatments is most will not hold up to washing and need to be reapplied after washing or wetting. I have never seen this material discolor fabric but I would test it on a sample or non visible place before treating an entire garment. As others have said natural materials will hold up better under heat and fire and are more naturally flame retardant. The other option you can try is getting a flame retardant kilt made of same material firefighters gear is made from. I have two of these they are not cheap either but I could not resist being able to show off my profession in a unique kilt.

[ccga3359]

Exactly! A lot of our clothes are made of fabrics containing more or less acrylic and you practically never hear about people getting harmed. Why should it be worse with kilts?

Yes, we have seen photos of acrylic and always Pakistani kilts in flames.
All of these photos have, to my best knowledge, been made by or on behalf of Scottish kilt makers. Just wonder what they did to the kilts before setting fire to them?

Always be aware of the source and possible motives.

Greg

I don't think that your statement is very accurate. Much of today's clothing is cotton, polyester or polyester/cotton blends. You will find very little in acrylic unless blended with other fibres or in the cheapest of sweater and kilts.

I hardly believe that an excellerant is used in these tests. Consider a match burns at between 600-800F, whereas a candle flame can burn any where from 600-1400F. Acrylic fibre will ignite at between 550-570F when exposed to flame and will auto ignite at >850F. Also consider that for spontanious combustion the surface has to reach that temperature. An interesting article about the burning qualities of various fabrics.

I much prefer natural fibres for this reason and because generally they are more comfortable. I have a Pakistani made kilt but it's wool. I wouldn't ever consider acrylic because, to be quite honest I don't trust the safety standards from that part of the world, I doubt that, being made for export that the industry is highly regulated. I do own poly-viscous kilts and I'm more confident EU safety standards.

I spent five years in the fire service, I've seen more than I care to detail of serious burns from 1st degree to 4th degree. Some attributed to cigarettes as the ignition source.

[Bugbear]

Ya, what the chicken guy said.

But put aside burning the acrylic, you do not ever want the apron of your acrylic kilt to melt onto your skin. It can happen very quickly, and, as I said before, it becomes one with your skin and does not cool down so quickly (they usually have to peal the skin/acrylic off to treat the burn...). Know of several times that people have had this happen with cheap acrylic swetters, as well as, some rayon clothing.

Maybe the worst a cigarette might do is get to your leg and leave a dime size or smaller burn. I would be very careful around camp fires, ovens, and large sources of heat in any kind of acrylic clothing, though.

* I bought a 100% cotton kilt, back in the day, to wear around the kilns when working at ceramic studios. They wrinkle like an elephant, but they do fine otherwise.