Geekness requested

[yoippari]

I have not kept up with computer news. Whenever I go to buy a new computer component I research and mentally spend hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars in my head before I get back to reality and actually buy what I need. So I know little about what is on the market now since the last component I bought was a 512 stick of kingston value ram probably 8 months ago.

I got a vid card for christmas. Unfortunately it is PCIe x16.
PCI (as in the regular expansion slots in your computer)
e (express meaning it is much faster than the regular expansion slots)
x16 (with 16 lanes of really fast goodness).

What this means is that my two year old motherboard (christmas '03) can't support it. I know I need a new motherboard and whatever I get it will have an amd socket. Probably a 939 but I'm not sure. My parents added a $100 credit at the place they got the card because they knew I would have to buy a new board to use the gift. I am looking at one specific board right now but that is all it is, looking.

Here is my problem. Once I get the new motherboard, cpu, and stick in my new gpu, I want to make it all water cooled. Now I have built several computers in the past but I have never overclocked (don't want to risk a dead cpu), I have never case modded, never any DIY computer hardware other than putting all the pieces together.

I don't know where to start with a liquid cooling system.

I know you need water blocks (one for the cpu, and one for each additional point (chipset/gpu/hdd)), you need a pump, a radiator and fans, and I think a water tank for overflow when the water heats and expands, but I'm not sure on that one. I know there are different sizes of hoses and logicly bigger means more water flow.

So where do I start? What brands do I look at? Should I buy an all in one kit, or build it myself out of blocks, hoses, and other components? Should I even bother with a GPU point? The board I am looking at has a review that says the chipset is very close (a little under) the video card and could make any cooling upgrades (to the chipset) difficult, that and the chipset runs hot on this board, should I bother with that board or should I leave the stock fan?

As I said, geekness requested.

[Blu (Ontario)]

Try one of the Overclock Forums. THose are the people with the hands-on experience.

[Southern Breeze]

I've got a basic system on my PC,nothing extreme. Check out Watercooling101, it's a good place to start getting info.
http://www.wc101.com/index.htm

[Angus MacSpey]

Depends on how much you want to spend, really.

I'm running an MSI K8N Neo 3, which is a Socket 754 board with PCIe support. It's about 80 bucks, but doesn't have an onboard riser for Firewire. Socket 754 is good if you don't want to spend a ton on a 64-bit processor. Semprons are just fine, but you can also get 64-bit processors for the 754. 939 is 64-bit only, so you're going to spend more.

It's a never-ending thing. You get a board with a fast FSB, then ya want SATA hard drives. More RAM. Etc.

If you're going to water cool, I would suggest one of the kits. If not, at least get some better air cooling. Stock fans boxed with processors aren't really up to the task.

[yoippari]

I know that there are geek central places to ask this kind of question but geeks are everywhere and there are bound to be at least a couple here.

My current setup is a msi kt4v with VIA chipset. An athlon 1800+ xp under a volcano 9 that runs constantly at 5200 rpm (spec says it is 2900-4800 +/-5%) This thing has been going for nearly 2 years now.

I don't have the money to start going SATA yet, but I do kinda want to buy another stick of 512.

The processor I am looking at is http://www.pcclub.com/product_detail...temno=A1906541

3200+ 64 bit for $185 but I got $100 credit at the local store so it would only be $85 out of my pocket. Then the mother board... still looking into that one. Could go SLI or crossfire or single.

Spending... that depends on how long I want to wait. I could get a mobo and processor with the stock fan as early as.. now. Or I could wait a month and get the board, oem processor, and get a basic water cooling setup (about 150 it seems) and upgrade later with a heater core and more water blocks. I am willing to wait a couple of months so money isn't an issue (to a certain extent).

[furrycelt]

I am more of a front-end geek than a backend geek (id est: I like to program and design; I don't muck with hardware and OS's and networks unless I have to).

Having said that...

You do not want a watercooled system, no matter how geeky it is. My best friend (a backend geek) has one that he put together. He did a bang up job, it works great... and he hates it. He learned they are way more trouble than they are worth. The set up is bulky, the hoses get in the way in the case, you run the risk of getting your hardware wet, and when it is all said and done, you still have to deal with the heat. All the water does is move the heat, so you have to figure out a way of cooling the water down. Most use radiator with air blowing over it.... which is what the water system replaced! (seems reduntant, eh?).

If you want to maintain your geekiness and up performance and bring down the chill... go with a peltier.

If you still want to do the fluid thing, just sink your entire box into a tank with circulating chilled carbon-tetrachloride. Any and all heat is instantly wisked away, and the fluid is non-conductive, so the electronics do not care that they are in a liquid. Of course this chemical is poisonous and unstable so you should wash your hands after handling.

[yoippari]

I have done some reading in the past couple of days and I must say a couple of things.

when it is all said and done, you still have to deal with the heat. All the water does is move the heat, so you have to figure out a way of cooling the water down. Most use radiator with air blowing over it.... which is what the water system replaced! (seems reduntant, eh?).

The goal of the water is to get the heat away from the processor where it can be cooled quickly and more efficiently. Get a bigger radiator and you can leave the water in there longer to cool down more. That is something you can't do with a heat sink fan setup, well, at least not very well.

If you want to maintain your geekiness and up performance and bring down the chill... go with a peltier.

Everything I have read about peltiers is that they are expensive and don't work well by themselves. In fact as far as cpu cooling it looks like they are always used with watercooling. Even then it is just a water cooling system with a different medium. Instead of using water to move heat away from a cpu you are using an electrical current, then you transfer it to a water cooling system (or maybe a hsf but if you are going with a peltier why go half way).

tank with circulating chilled carbon-tetrachloride.

When all I can find for three pages on google for something is materal safety data sheets saying that the stuff is very poisonous I can't believe this is a serious suggestion. The fourth page included a list of manufacturers followed by more MSDSs.

I don't mean to pick on you or anything but first you say watercooling is too much trouble and doesn't make sense as to why you should do it (contrary to almost all of the overclocking community), then you say to use just a different version of the system you just say not to do which just so happens to almost always involve watercooling anyway, followed by an extremely dangerous suggestion. I do take offense to your post now that I have done my research into the technologies you mention. I don't get offended easily.

Besides my goal is not to "be geeky" but to get more preformance and life out of my hardware. It just so happens that I am a geek and other geeks know how to do what I want.

[furrycelt]

I don't get offended easily.

Dang, and I wasn't even trying. ;)

I didn't mean to offend. The third suggestion was so out-in-left-field, I figured the humor was obvious.

For the record though, a decade ago it was normal for super-computers to be sitting in a vat or that stuff. Since that time, its use has declined because it is a dangerous chemical for humans. And there was a time when electronic engineers used to run circuit boards in a tank of that stuff to isolate small short-circuits. The chemical's low boiling point would show a stream of bubbles above any hot spot.

Besides my goal is not to "be geeky" but to get more preformance and life out of my hardware.

I use the term "geek" as a positive thing. Being "geeky" would imply wanting to get the most out of your hardware (be it performance or longevity).

-ian