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  1. #21
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    I apologize, I read it that some Irish, in an attempt to create an identity, copied Scottish Traditional. That the Scottish tradition predated the attempt by a few nationalist by several hundred years.

    The pipers have no distinctive features of dress. Just hang a kilt around his middle, and throw a bedgown over his shoulders, and he decomes an Irish piper. Even the traditional Irish caubeen is less that a century only.

    The only tartan that could conceivably be a traditional Irish tartan, the Ulster, was worn by a Scot and was likely woven by a Scot as well. The only reason that the Irish tartans are around in for Scottish weavers and kilt makers to sell to plastic patty's.

  2. #22
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    Fantastic, concise, honest and factual. I love it.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    2nd August 09
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    Ireland and Tasmania
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrShoe View Post
    Gentlemen,

    Great collection of facts and interpretations of writings. So, now we have the definitive research article to point to and refer the Irish to that they should not wear kilts or have Irish "recognized" tartans.
    Personally I find your quote offensive.......!
    If that were the case then only Blood Born Scottish and in effect Highlanders should be allowed to wear the Kilt and certainly NO AMERICAN's, as it stand's the Kilt is for everybody to wear and was adopted by the Irish to affirm a link to their rich and glorious past. Irish men have been wearing the Kilt for long enough to claim it as an Irish icon as well.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    13th January 08
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    Well done

  5. #25
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    6th July 07
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    The Highlands,Scotland.
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    I have no Irish connections, but I have always wondered about their ties with the kilt and now I know. Exellent work, well presented.

  6. #26
    Join Date
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    deleted by Slohairt.
    Last edited by slohairt; 27th February 10 at 12:45 AM.
    [B][COLOR="DarkGreen"]John Hart[/COLOR]
    Owner/Kiltmaker - Keltoi

  7. #27
    Join Date
    13th February 10
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    Denver, Colorado
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    The only reason that the Irish tartans are around in for Scottish weavers and kilt makers to sell to plastic patty's.
    Wouldn't you yourself be considered a "Plastic Paddy"? After all you hav an American Heritage kilt. Not exactly a traditional weave by any means!
    Last edited by Tartan Hiker; 27th February 10 at 08:46 AM.
    Good friends and good beer! Thank God that I'm here!

  8. #28
    Join Date
    8th March 09
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    Leakey, Texas, The Texas Highlands...
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    I guess I am a "plastic Paddy" as refered to by Mr Shoe.... I am glad you can feel free enough to place a degrading label on me and others who are of Irish blood... Thank You

  9. #29
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrShoe View Post
    I apologize, I read it that some Irish, in an attempt to create an identity, copied Scottish Traditional. That the Scottish tradition predated the attempt by a few nationalist by several hundred years.

    The pipers have no distinctive features of dress. Just hang a kilt around his middle, and throw a bedgown over his shoulders, and he decomes an Irish piper. Even the traditional Irish caubeen is less that a century only.

    The only tartan that could conceivably be a traditional Irish tartan, the Ulster, was worn by a Scot and was likely woven by a Scot as well. The only reason that the Irish tartans are around in for Scottish weavers and kilt makers to sell to plastic patty's.
    They weren't just any old Irish. They included a couple of the leaders of the Easter Rising and a couple of peers, and that's just the ones actually mentioned in the article.

    As for the caubeen, where do you get your information from? AFAIK, use of the caubeen in daily wear actually stopped a couple of hundred years ago, so to assert that it only started to be worn a century ago appears to be nonsense.

    Concerning tartan, the article only said that Irish tartan kilts were post-war, not Irish wearing of tartan. In fact, it is now thought that there were celts wearing tartan centuries before they reached the British Isles. Moreover, it is probable that the Irish brat (cloak) was the precursor of the Scottish kilt, and that it may well have been tartan, although historical references only refer to it as striped. The highlanders descended from the Scotii or Dal Riada tribe from Ireland.

    None of the above contradicts the article, which appears to be very accurate as far as it goes.

    I do have one query about the article, though. It appears to place the British Army use of the saffron kilt (for pipers in Irish regiments) very late, after the Irish nationalists wore it. I have seen many references to much earlier use of the saffron kilt by the British Army in this way, even as early as 1857. Of course, I have no proof. Perhaps a little research into the Tyrone Fusiliers, or Royal Tyrone Fusiliers might either verify or disprove this, and reports of slightly later use by the Inniskillen or Enniskillen Regiment or Fusiliers might also be worth looking into.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    17th January 09
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    I think that effectively puts that subject to bed - well done you two.

    Now if you could just do something on white hose...


    Regards

    Chas

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