Chanter review?

[EagleJCS]

Help!?

Need some advice on Chanters. Mein Frau bought me a practice chanter a few years ago, but my fingertips lack sufficient sensation to find and cover the holes. I've even thought about putting corn pads around the holes.

Used to play the Sax and Clarinet when I was a kid, but operating those keys is a lot easier than working the holes in a chanter. Help! I either need a chanter with easy holes or is there a chanter with keys?

I would love to learn the pipes, but my damn fingertips are so damn numb. (yes I know what is wrong with them so please don't offer medical advice)

Thanks in advance, ColMac

Unfortunately, you may be out of luck. AFAIK, there are no practice chanters with keys (although I've read rumors of a 'Brian Boru' chanter???).

There are some makers that countersink the holes of their practice chanters (Naill comes to mind - I have a standard polypenco). That may make it a little easier to feel the holes until you get used to finger placement. Most bagpipe chanters are not countersunk though.

Putting pads around the holes may work, but I'd be concerned about being able to completely cover and seal the hole.

Best of luck!

[george7]

Are you a piper????????????????????????

The whole (or should I say hole) idea... and I MEAN THE ONLY REASON practice chanter holes are countersunk are to imitate the feel of a real chanter. The holes on a pipe chanter are the same diameter as the larger part of the countersink of a practice chanter. Practice chanters only need a tiny hole to resonate the pitch.

Unfortunately, you may be out of luck. AFAIK, there are no practice chanters with keys (although I've read rumors of a 'Brian Boru' chanter???).

There are some makers that countersink the holes of their practice chanters (Naill comes to mind - I have a standard polypenco). That may make it a little easier to feel the holes until you get used to finger placement. Most bagpipe chanters are not countersunk though.

Putting pads around the holes may work, but I'd be concerned about being able to completely cover and seal the hole.

Best of luck!

[EagleJCS]

Are you a piper????????????????????????

The whole (or should I say hole) idea... and I MEAN THE ONLY REASON practice chanter holes are countersunk are to imitate the feel of a real chanter. The holes on a pipe chanter are the same diameter as the larger part of the countersink of a practice chanter. Practice chanters only need a tiny hole to resonate the pitch.

Yes, I'm a piper. I agree that countersinking the fingerholes on the practice chanter makes them feel much more like the actual bagpipe chanter - no question. It's not just the size of the hole, but the placement as well.

I have seen practice chanters that do not have countersunk holes. Some of the practice chanter kits sold at Highland Games fall into this category. There are also older practice chanters from some makers that are not countersunk. Countersinking the holes is a relatively recent - the last 15-20 years or so - innovation.

My instructor showed me one of her older PC's - no counter sinking, and the holes were much smaller. Very hard to feel them under your fingers. That's why I suggested countersunk holes. They offer a better tactile response than one that's not countersunk. The spacing is also different - shorter - than the actual bagpipe chanter. If you can't feel the holes very well, it may help to at least get your fingers accustomed to the correct spacing.

Muscle memory makes a big difference. If you learn finger placement on a practice chanter with a shorter distance between the holes, then it may take some time to adjust to the full-size bagpipe chanter - almost like learning a completely new instrument.

Sorry to derail the thread...

[JimB]

All I know is that I think I got stuck with a chanter that doesn't work.
It makes the most awful sounds

[Mr. Woolery]

Col Mac- Part of your problem is trying to use the fingertips. Pipers don't normally finger with the tips, but with straight fingers. An instructor is almost necessary here. There are only a few people who ever manage to self-teach to any degree of competence and even thy normally suggest that people look to getting a teacher if possible.

On the subject of practice chanters, there are a lot of good makes out there. I've not played a Shepherd, but I have a Walsh poly and it is good. I've played Gibson, Dunbar, Piper's Choice, and all are good chanters.

I have a 30+ year old Hardie practice chanter (standard length, from a time when few people had long chanters available). It is my favorite chanter. It sounds good and it feels great. My teacher does not insist on any particular make or model of practice chanter, but she keeps several reeds to swap between her two blackwood chanters so she can match the pitch of any student's instrument. I would not expect this from most teachers, though.

My children both have blackwood chanters and they do sound and feel better than plastic. Part of my intention in giving them chanters that cost twice as much as the poly they started with is that they learn early on how to care for a wooden instrument properly. They disassemble the chanters, oil them, use caution when handling. All skills that they need for when they are playing on the bagpipes.

If someone will not take care of a wooden instrument, then plastic becomes an appropriate option. If they take care of their instruments, wood will deliver better sound and feel, whether in full pipes or in the practice chanter. My opinion, but it seems to be accurate, based on the pipers in our area. After all, plastic has only been an option for a relatively short time, compared to how long pipers have been taking proper care of wood instruments.

-Patrick

[SteveB]

JimB
The first few weeks on my practice chanter resulted in horrible noise. Four months later and my spouse can recognize my attempts at Bruce's Address and Amazing Grace. I am still learning how to interpret musical notation and translate that to my fingers. My tutor is insisting that all future practice is with the metronome, so that I can develop even tempo while doing scales, exercises, and learning tunes. We are working on tune memorization.

Mr Woolery and I agree that the Blackwood practice chanter is well worth the initial expense. A piper spends more time on the practice chanter than on the Great Highland Bagpipes. It is used to learn new tunes, exercises old tunes, and experiment with musical expression. The resonant quality of the Blackwood long practice chanter with a good quality reed makes the learning process enjoyable. The wood vibrates with the tune, and according to my tutor, gives a better feel as to what to expect on the bagpipe chanter.
I am not a piper yet. That is a ways from now. I do enjoy my Dunbar Deluxe long practice chanter for the instrument that it is, and enjoy performing on it each day.
I have used it to play tunes for the children in my classes to sing along with. The volume is reasonable, and sound is within the range that the children can enjoy. (Kindergarten and first grade.)
I do have to practice even these simple childrens tunes for many hours before I can play them. It is all good finger exercise, and helps keep the incentive going for getting to the stage where my tutor will invite me to get a set of pipes.
Slainte

[wvpiper]

They disassemble the chanters, oil them, use caution when handling. All skills that they need for when they are playing on the bagpipes.

Poly chanters need to be taken apart and swabbed out also. Same skills required. FYI- I've heard that you shouldn't oil the inside of a blackwood pipe chanter. According to the advanced pipers at dunsire forums, it will change the pitch and perfomance of the chanter. I can't say. Food for thought if they're oiling the inside of the chanter

If someone will not take care of a wooden instrument, then plastic becomes an appropriate option. ...............If they take care of their instruments, wood will deliver better sound and feel, whether in full pipes or in the practice chanter.

Of course, there all kinds of variables regarding wood that you cannot control; heat, cold, humidity, etc, all of these can adversely affect wooden pipes and their playability, as well as their durability. That's why the poly pipes were developed. Stability and their durability, and I've heard they sound just as good as blackwood. You can take the best care of a blackwood instrument, but if a chanter rolls off a table, twist it wrong, it will break. Accidents happen, drones get stepped on and broken, etc. Won't happen with poly

I think frankly the blackwood v poly argument boils down to 'tradition' and not so much about performance. What are the basics of good pipes: smooth bores in dense material to push the sound out and not absorb it. Diameter and length of bores affects the pitch. These properties can be achieved with poly just as well as blackwood, in my opinion with the advantage of being more stable and requiring less maintenance.

[Mr. Woolery]

I don't oil the inside of a GHB chanter, but I do oil the outiside and I oil the drone bores. My kids oil their PCs with a pipe cleaner and almond oil. They have seen me oil my pipes as well.

I don't think the poly is actually as good as blackwood. The same bores in other materials (maple, poplar, glass, brass) won't deliver the same exact sound. A non-absorbant material will collect moisture faster, too. Then, we come to the whole apples to apples comparison. There's one set of Dunbar P1s in the band. The guy using that set has tried a bunch of different reeds in it and the PM finally gave him a set of Kinnards (these are the best of the lot). They do sound good. No argument. BUT they don't sound as good (to my ears, to the ears of the PM, to the ears of the most experienced members of the band) as ABW. Wood resonates in a way that plastic does not.

I don't really think poly pipes were developed to deal with moisture issues or heat or cold. I strongly suspect the folks who started making plastic bagpipes were either concerned with the availability of blackwood (at different times it has been harder to get than plastic) or with cost (delrin is a whole lot cheaper than ABW, which makes me wonder why the pipes are not a whole lot cheaper). I can't prove it, but I'm fairly certain.

In terms of practice chanters, there's another advantage to a wooden chanter. It absorbs moisture, so I can play longer before my reed chokes off with spit. This is really significant if you play a reed like a Walsh, which is very sensitive to being wet.

I'm not saying everyone should ditch the plastic chanters. I still play mine plenty. I'm just saying that a wooden chanter has qualities that make it worth owning, even if it is a higher-maintenance instrument. I prefer to wear a wool kilt over an acrylic, I prefer to eat home-baked bread over the stuff at the stores, and I prefer to play wooden bagpipes and practice chanters over plastic. I do own an acrylic kilt and wear it. I do eat store bread sometimes. I do have a plastic practice chanter. But my preference wins out and if I am enjoying my practice more because of intangibles (or barely-tangibles, or subtleties), then I practice better and become a better piper because of it.

-Patrick

[wvpiper]

I don't really think poly pipes were developed to deal with moisture issues or heat or cold. I strongly suspect the folks who started making plastic bagpipes were either concerned with the availability of blackwood (at different times it has been harder to get than plastic) or with cost (delrin is a whole lot cheaper than ABW, which makes me wonder why the pipes are not a whole lot cheaper). I can't prove it, but I'm fairly certain.

Now that you mention you're right, sort of. According to Ringo Bowen, Dunbar designed the poly pipes b/c he was getting poor quality blackwood.
http://www.thebagpipeplace.com/museum/page7.html
(If you've haven't seen Ringo's website, look around. It has loads of pictures and old sound clips of champion pipers.)
But, I think they do hold up better than blackwood and are less affected by the variables I mentioned.

You're also right, it is also about preference probably more than anything. The same debates 'rage' between blackwood and cocobolo, or cocus, etc that rage here on polyviscose v wool 8yd v 4/5 yd and so on.

[cajuncelt]

I have to say this because no one else has...we can dissect abw vs. poly, talk about harmonics, talk about tradition, etc. The truth is...is really doesn't matter a whole lot. A quality chanter from a quality manufacturer is all you need, period. We are bagpipers....not chanterers.
If you have the $$$ for a abw chanter, fine. It sure isn't necessary. If I damage my poly chanter, no biggy. No maintenence either. Truth be known, I don't REALLY care about my pc's tone. As long as the scale is balanced and it's easy to play, etc. I spend my time/energy on the pipes...that's the end from the means.