Vintage VS New Pipes

[Nick the DSM]

Okay, I'm getting ready to buy a set and I'm not quite sure on what to look for. Well I kinda do.

Is it better to get an older set of pipes or a brand new set? Unfortunetly my instructor isn't very helpful with this.

Are there years of makers which had poor quality control of their pipes?

[beerbecue]

You will find almost as many opinions on this subject as you will pipers.... For your first set, you are very safe buying new, as most models and makers have some sort of warranty on wood and parts - not a bad thing... I know of a Grade 1 band in my area that recommends McCallums for beginners - ABW, warranty, good customer service, and a good price point....

Used, well, I guess it depends... If you know the provenance of a set, how it was cared for, and get a good deal, it would be hard to pass up... As far as a classic or antique set (vintage is really not the appropriate term - eBay has also greatly aided in the distortion and misuse of this term), you may end up paying quite a bit for a truly spectacular set - and it may just be worth it... to see some fine examples, check out Jim McGillivray's site to see his antique sets on sale - not an ad, he just has multiple old sets all the time....

Was quality control an issue? You bet, different turners in the shop, wood availability issues, several things can play a role... Henderson, for example, a long-standing name, went through several changes over the years.. As did Lawrie and Hardie.... A 1920 Henderson is not the same pipe as a 1960 or even a 1980 Henderson.. lots of dimensions changed with the times, especially bore diameters... the new ones are supposed to have the 'classic' dimensions.. You will find that a lot of makers are going back to turn of the century dimensions for their pipes - hey, fashions change.....

I myself went through two sets before I found the one I wanted, made by Douglas MacPherson... came down to sound for me....

[Dram]

Okay, I'm getting ready to buy a set and I'm not quite sure on what to look for. Well I kinda do.

Is it better to get an older set of pipes or a brand new set? Unfortunetly my instructor isn't very helpful with this.

Are there years of makers which had poor quality control of their pipes?

This is a giant can of worms. Old pipes are notorious for having problems. It's just the nature of them. There are so many variables when choosing a bagpipe. The key rule here is that African Blackwood is king. ABW is the most durable "tone-wood" for woodwind instruments. Ebony is very brittle and most old examples are riddled with cracks. Lesser avaible cocuswood pipes are better than Ebony as far as lasting qualities...most of this has to do with the natural oil content of the wood ABW is very high in oil content and resists moisture well.

Old pipes very greatly in quality. You never know how they have been taken care of, you also have the issue of old pipes being cobbled together with different pieces some, from different makers. And yes some makes of vintage pipes had better years than others.

Here are some makes of pipes that had very bad years. Henderson, Lawrie, Hardie, Grainger and Campbell. Some sets are fantastic and some especially made in the 1940's to the 1960's were dreadful.

Frankly some modern makers have had real issues making a lasting bagpipe. They pale in comparison to the classic Henderson's, Lawries (most pre 1900 and early 1900 models) MacDougall (Duncan) and Glen. Again, even with a year that is desirable, how has the pipe been taken care of, are the pieces original to the set etc? Lots of caveats.

In choosing a pipe today the makers that honor the makers of the past and use seasoned wood, top-grade materials etc... In my opinion are Atherton, Kron, and Sinclair. Look for true craftsmanship. It's appaling that musical instruments that have centuries old tradition are mass produced today like some sort of McDonalds offering. You won't be dissapointed with a well made instrument (yes they cost more...but you get what you pay for. Save up longer!) and chances are you piping experience will be far more enjoyable if you're not constantly dealing with a troublesome pipe.

There are many makers today that I would avoid like the plague. I won't name them here as I don't wish to slag anyone off.

Do as much research as you possibly can. You can also message me if you have any specific questions.

[ohiopiper]

Worry more about sound than name and antiquity. I know it sounds like a snarky answer to your question, but I don't mean it to be.

If you are willing to pay the premium for vintage pipes, listen to that individual stand, not ones like it. Learn as much as you can about the provenance of the pipes. Have them inspected by someone who knows more than me or you.

If buying new, listen to the pipes from that maker. Each maker has a slightly different mix of tenor to bass and some have more ring to the drones. When you find a sound you like, ask the owners about reeding them. Some pipes are a snap to reed, other must be reeded on third Tuesdays under a full moon in the presence of a pregnant rabbit between three a.m. and sunrise. Alright, I exagerrated about the rabbit. It doesn't have to be pregnant.

In short, if you buy an old set, make sure you like the sound and have them checked over well. If you buy new, make sure you like the sound and inquire about any issues know by owners of that make of pipe.

My short list of new makers would include Dunbar, McCallum, Kintail, Naill, Soutar, plus the Atherton, Kron and Sinclair mentioned by Dram.

[Piper]

Another consideration, depending on how old a set of pipes you're considering, is pitch. Overall pitch of the pipes has gone up a fair bit over the years. If you are going to be playing with a band, check to see if they provide the chanter (sometimes) or at least the reed (usually). Although if it's an older chanter, it might prove tough to reed. My instructor plays a set of 1940's Robertsons. I have a set of poly Dunbars and a set of ABW Kintails, both made around 2000. When I pipe with my instructor I use a 1940's, 50's vintage Forbes chanter.
Of course if, like me, you're not a band player, get whatever sounds good to your ear.

[Nick the DSM]

Its not the name and antiquity that I'm going after its the quality that I'm looking at. Names have nothing to do with this.

Like all instruments, makers have years of bad quality and I don't know what years to steer from. I may just get a new set because of that.

[druid]

Everyone here speaks the truth. The thread I posted with my daughter dancing are pre 1900 Lawries. When I got them in 1987, they were sitting in a closet for 20+ years and it took 6 months of oiling the wood to rehydrate them. Playing them dry would have split them and they were $600 in the condition I got them.

Their bores are small...SO small that I had to sand the drone [Tone] enhancers down to get them to fit in the entry way of the drone stocks. Compared to a new set of Naill pipes a girl just got [parents bought them], we had to use electrical tape to take up the difference in the two diameters for her set. Hers are the Naill DN2 model and they sound very nice. The more she plays them, the more they "settle in."

Another woman bought a set of McCallum AB4 Celtic [model]. They require constant tweaking but I think it's not so much a problem with the Pipes as it is, she needs to play them more often than she does [she's got a horrid work schedule/works for the FDA]. However, they do have a nice tone but I happen to feel that the Naill pipes sound a bit sweeter.

Another male player owns a set of Gibsons, I believe the model to be R-110-D. While they are a handsome set, they are...well...loud. They make GREAT street band pipes, especially when you have low attendance numbers...lol. They sound just fine but again, they are loud. He's been playing them for a few years too...so it's not like they haven't been "broken in" or anything. I just happen to believe that is one of their characteristics...

In truth? I should think that buying new may be a better choice UNLESS as suggested, hearing the actual Pipe you are buying.

[wvpiper]

Worry more about sound than name and antiquity.

This is the simplest, and best way, to answer this.
Just be aware that whatever you decide it may take a significant amount of time to get your set (especially with custom makers) so choose early.

Good luck

[beerbecue]

Time is an issue when buying from certain makers, that is for sure... Sinclair and Atherton are a year at least for a new set... Kron is faster I am sure.. MacLellan is around 6-9 months...

For a beginning piper, that sound really is a very abstract idea.... I think better to get an ABW set, not too much bling, that a new player will be unafraid to take out of the case and that will be played on a regular basis.... better to work on learning how to play early on than pursue that dream set....

Plus, many new sets are in stock at many dealers, so the delay will be minimal.... There are a lot of online retailers, so at least you can do some price comparison shopping...

I have to say though, that if your instructor has not been much help in the decision... well....

Here is one opinion from a Grade 1 piper and PM of Oran Mor Pipe Band - I am not suggesting you buy from him... but here is his perspective

http://blog.pipersdojo.com/

[ohiopiper]

If you're taking suggestions, I'll chip in with Dunbar. Yeah, I know everybody immediately thinks poly pipes, but they make some awesome sounding ABW pipes. Their drones have good balance and tone, the Elite chanters are extremely good and easy to reed. Of course, this is my personal preference in sound. Like has been mentioned, every maker has a slightly different sound. My wife got me a set of Dunbars for Christmas and I've hardly touched my Gibsons since.

I made a decision a while back that I wasn't going to even consider buying old pipes. Not because of anything wrong with them, but the fact that while I am a halfway competent player, I don't know enough to thoroughly inspect a set and spot potential problems before shelling out my cash.