X Marks the Scot - An on-line community of kilt wearers.

   X Marks Partners - (Go to the Partners Dedicated Forums )
USA Kilts website Freedom Kilts website Scotweb websiten Burnetts and Struth website Celtic Croft website
Xmarks advertising information Celtic Corner website Xmarks advertising information Houston Kiltmakers Xmarks advertising information

User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13
  1. #1
    Join Date
    3rd March 10
    Location
    43*N 88*W
    Posts
    3,844
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Help With a Mystery Coat of Arms

    I've run into a bit of a puzzler, and am hoping someone out there can throw me a life-line.

    A bit of back-story:
    We recently shut down my grandfather's house, as he's in need of some assistance in day to day living. One piece which I came into possession of (and which I've always loved) is the below.



    The piece was my grandmother's father's (great-grandfather's) made for him in 1932 (it's inscribed on the back) from hand carved walnut. I know he wasn't one to make things up, as he was a +semi-professional historian (and honorary board member of our local museum).

    His direct paternal line was German, but a web search reveals NO hits for the name. None what-so-ever. Not even from the "here's your family crest" trash merchants.

    We have some information about the maternal line, -part of it spreads like a weed. This branch of the family were medieval engineers and built castles in what is now northern Italy, and into southern Germany and beyond. This wing of the family spread all over western Europe and has a HUGE 5 year gathering at the family castle. But their crest isn't this one (I've got that recorded as well).

    What I'm inquiring about, to be not very succinct, is whether or not there is a database of coat of arms based NOT on family name, but reversed engineered to be based on visual elements.

    I know it's a bit of a bugger, with no colouration on the shield... but that's what I've got to go on.

    The rampant lion is common enough, I know. But there's always HOPE that somewhere along the way there's a touch of Scots in meith:

    Thanks in advance for any assistance that might be rendered.
    Last edited by artificer; 2nd September 10 at 04:36 PM.
    artificer Pronunciation: \är-ˈti-fə-sər, ˈär-tə-fə-sər\ : noun : 14th century :a skilled or artistic worker or craftsman
    Artificer Custom Sporrans
    *Home of the Original Kenneth MacLeay Sporran Project & Functional Brass Cantles*

  2. #2
    Join Date
    16th May 10
    Location
    Capital District, NY
    Posts
    468
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    For what is worth, I know that one of the Dudley's (Thomas, if I remember correctly) was granted permission to use the rampant lion as his / family branch coat of arms. If you need dates (somewhere early 1600's), I can dig them up. They are part of my tree so that is why I have the info.

    Chris Shepherd

  3. #3
    Join Date
    27th October 09
    Location
    Olde New England
    Posts
    1,033
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The Buchanans after about 1400 almost all have a black rampant lion in their armorial achievements. But almost always with a double tressure flory counter flory identical to the Royal Standard.

    The Macmillan is one other clan I know with a rampant lion.

    But of course on the continent is the rampant lion of Flanders which looks very much like the one pictured.
    President, Clan Buchanan Society International

  4. #4
    Join Date
    27th October 09
    Location
    Olde New England
    Posts
    1,033
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Check this link as well.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armoria...y_Roman_Empire

    I see that Bohemia has a rampant lion as well.
    President, Clan Buchanan Society International

  5. #5
    Join Date
    17th December 07
    Location
    Staunton, Va
    Posts
    4,948
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Hunting for lions...

    Quote Originally Posted by artificer View Post
    I've run into a bit of a puzzler, and am hoping someone out there can throw me a life-line.

    A bit of back-story:
    We recently shut down my grandfather's house, as he's in need of some assistance in day to day living. One piece which I came into possession of (and which I've always loved) is the below.



    The piece was my grandmother's father's (great-grandfather's) made for him in 1932 (it's inscribed on the back) from hand carved walnut. I know he wasn't one to make things up, as he was a +semi-professional historian (and honorary board member of our local museum).

    His direct paternal line was German, but a web search reveals NO hits for the name. None what-so-ever. Not even from the "here's your family crest" trash merchants.

    We have some information about the maternal line, -part of it spreads like a weed. This branch of the family were medieval engineers and built castles in what is now northern Italy, and into southern Germany and beyond. This wing of the family spread all over western Europe and has a HUGE 5 year gathering at the family castle. But their crest isn't this one (I've got that recorded as well).

    What I'm inquiring about, to be not very succinct, is whether or not there is a database of coat of arms based NOT on family name, but reversed engineered to be based on visual elements.

    I know it's a bit of a bugger, with no colouration on the shield... but that's what I've got to go on.

    The rampant lion is common enough, I know. But there's always HOPE that somewhere along the way there's a touch of Scots in meith:

    Thanks in advance for any assistance that might be rendered.
    Okay... tracking this down this is a pretty tall order, but I will try to give you some guidance that will (hopefully) pay off.

    To begin with, the fact that the shield lacks colour (tincture in heraldic parlance) is not as important as it may seem at first blush. What we are looking at is a lion rampant under a chevronel (a thin chevron) in chief. Now the carving may, or may not be an accurate representation of the arms. Quite often carvers will exaggerate one aspect of the arms for dramatic effect (or ease of carving). That being the case, we can's discount the fact that the arms may also be depicted as a shield with a chevron (or chevronel) in the center, with a small lion rampant in base. So, instead of searching for one coat of arms, you may actually be searching for two. (No one said being a herald was easy.)

    Here comes the tedious part. You are going to have to do a page-by-page search of Riestap's Armorial General. This multi-volume, illustrated mega-tome, was compiled in the 19th century as a guide for engravers, and it lists about 70% of all continental arms. Since your local library probably doesn't have a copy of this, you need to go to www.kuruvinda.com/armorial.php where you should find Riestap's Armorial General on line.

    Happy hunting!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    22nd November 07
    Location
    US
    Posts
    11,355
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't know anything about any of this. However, http://www.kuruvinda.com/armorial.php doesn't seem to link to an accessible page.

    It does seem to be associated with this page, though: http://www.groupsrv.com/hobby/about234459.html
    I tried to ask my inner curmudgeon before posting, but he sprayed me with the garden hose…
    Yes, I have squirrels in my brain…

  7. #7
    Join Date
    3rd March 10
    Location
    43*N 88*W
    Posts
    3,844
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks to all so far,
    the link MOR provided appears (as BugBear mentioned) to be dead.

    I DID find this though. I do have to warn all that it's a 133MB pdf... proceed at your own peril

    http://www.archive.org/details/armorialgnra01rietuoft

    It's 1200+ pages of Reitouft, in downloadable pdf/kindle/etc.
    Warning, it's in French.
    artificer Pronunciation: \är-ˈti-fə-sər, ˈär-tə-fə-sər\ : noun : 14th century :a skilled or artistic worker or craftsman
    Artificer Custom Sporrans
    *Home of the Original Kenneth MacLeay Sporran Project & Functional Brass Cantles*

  8. #8
    Join Date
    17th December 07
    Location
    Staunton, Va
    Posts
    4,948
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by artificer View Post
    Thanks to all so far,
    the link MOR provided appears (as BugBear mentioned) to be dead.

    I DID find this though. I do have to warn all that it's a 133MB pdf... proceed at your own peril

    http://www.archive.org/details/armorialgnra01rietuoft

    It's 1200+ pages of Reitouft, in downloadable pdf/kindle/etc.
    Warning, it's in French.
    French is the language of Heralds and heraldry. Or so the French tell us.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    7th July 09
    Location
    Melbourne,Victoria Australia
    Posts
    3,438
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by artificer View Post
    Thanks to all so far,
    the link MOR provided appears (as BugBear mentioned) to be dead.

    I DID find this though. I do have to warn all that it's a 133MB pdf... proceed at your own peril

    http://www.archive.org/details/armorialgnra01rietuoft

    It's 1200+ pages of Reitouft, in downloadable pdf/kindle/etc.
    Warning, it's in French.
    And that's just Volume 1, you have volume 2 and 8 volumes that have been written by someone else but shows family shields that are referred to in 1 & 2 (Classed as dictionaries, I think)

    BTW its a fantastic site as there are a multitude of downloads

    Thanks to MOR & Bugbear for giving the heads up re the books and site
    Last edited by Downunder Kilt; 2nd September 10 at 10:47 PM. Reason: updating

  10. #10
    fendigaid.:

    Talking it looks to me like: "welch."

    i wish you luck with this endeavor. i had a friend who's forte was heraldry. a good text is also, "what's in a name?" by 2 authors, i will post the authors when i have it close at hand, as it is not to memory. it may have some information to help you with this hunt.:0)ith:
    Quote Originally Posted by artificer View Post
    I've run into a bit of a puzzler, and am hoping someone out there can throw me a life-line.

    A bit of back-story:
    We recently shut down my grandfather's house, as he's in need of some assistance in day to day living. One piece which I came into possession of (and which I've always loved) is the below.



    The piece was my grandmother's father's (great-grandfather's) made for him in 1932 (it's inscribed on the back) from hand carved walnut. I know he wasn't one to make things up, as he was a +semi-professional historian (and honorary board member of our local museum).

    His direct paternal line was German, but a web search reveals NO hits for the name. None what-so-ever. Not even from the "here's your family crest" trash merchants.

    We have some information about the maternal line, -part of it spreads like a weed. This branch of the family were medieval engineers and built castles in what is now northern Italy, and into southern Germany and beyond. This wing of the family spread all over western Europe and has a HUGE 5 year gathering at the family castle. But their crest isn't this one (I've got that recorded as well).

    What I'm inquiring about, to be not very succinct, is whether or not there is a database of coat of arms based NOT on family name, but reversed engineered to be based on visual elements.

    I know it's a bit of a bugger, with no colouration on the shield... but that's what I've got to go on.

    The rampant lion is common enough, I know. But there's always HOPE that somewhere along the way there's a touch of Scots in meith:

    Thanks in advance for any assistance that might be rendered.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Coat of Arms T-shirt?
    By BigMikeLV in forum Miscellaneous Forum
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 19th March 09, 06:17 AM
  2. HELP- a call to arms!
    By Pour1Malt in forum General Kilt Talk
    Replies: 117
    Last Post: 30th April 07, 12:33 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.0