Difference between a "dancing" kilt and any other, and liners?

[Pleater]

I had a look at some videos on the net, of various acts of scottish dancing - I suspect from the way that the kilts swung so freely that they were of lightweight material, possibly in some cases lightly weighted at the edges - and that the same kilt in a heavier cloth might even have unbalanced the dancers - some of them were exceedingly dainty little things and scarcely seemed to put a foot to the floor out of necessity.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[Paul]

As far as I know the dancing kilt for males or females use only 3-5yards of cloth and are normally 10.5oz wool.

[Barb T]

A "dancer's (not dancing!) kilt" is simply a traditional kilt made for a dancer.

-The construction is exactly the same, and the kilt opens on the same side as any trad kilt would.

-It's hard to leap around the swords with a big heavy kilt, so the tartan weight is typically less than for a man's trad kilt. In my opinion, the best kilts for dancers are made in 11-12 oz tartan (such as Dalgliesh weaves). I don't like 10 oz tartan for a kilt for a dancer - it's too flippy and wrinkles too easily, although some mills sell 10 oz tartan specifically for dancing (personally, I think it's too light). But 8 oz would be _too_ light in anyone's book.

-How much tartan is in a kilt for a dancer depends on the size of the dancer. Because most girls are smaller than most men, the kilt typically has less tartan. But even for a small girl, there will be at least 5 yards, and maybe 6, depending on the size of the sett (less than 5 yards doesn't give enough pleats and doesn't have the needed swing). For a larger dancer, I've used 7 yards or more. Because light weight tartan typically has smaller setts than heavier weight tartan, you can get away with a little less tartan and still have a nice number of pleats.

-Dancers typically wear dress (or white-based) tartans, because they show up better on stage. Dancers typically compete outdoors, and a dark kilt doesn't stand out on stage with a background of woods and fields. Dalgliesh specializes in weaving dress tartans for Highland dance - they carry over 80 dress tartans in 11-12 oz range.

-Kilts for dancers are not artificially weighted in any way, but they virtually all have hems that give them a bit of weight at the bottom. The hem is necessary because lightweight tartan is woven without a kilting selvedge.

-Because a dancer does not wear a kilt pin, the second apron edge buckle is necessary to control the fringe edge of the kilt.

-The kilt has a lining (not a liner) across the top of the inside of the kilt to cover the canvas interfacing. Steve explained it nicely.

-If you watch a Highland dance competition, the only concession to modesty is that the dancers are required to wear dark colored dance underwear so that the viewer doesn't get a flash of white panties when the kilt swings....

[Pleater]

--Kilts for dancers are not artificially weighted in any way, but they virtually all have hems that give them a bit of weight at the bottom. The hem is necessary because lightweight tartan is woven without a kilting selvage.
...

Of course - a hem - Thanks Barb - I could see that the lower edge of the kilt was swinging slightly more than looked right, but as the fabric was a tartan I was thinking that it would be a selvage.

Without a kilting selvage the kilt would be hemmed, and perhaps for some of the younger ones the hem was larger than absolutely necessary, to allow for growth, so it would add just that little extra weight.

I MIGHT just have been studying kilts a bit too much y'know - getting into the dynamics of swinging pleats and the physics of folds...

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[wildrover]

Ok...

I have the distinct impression that everyone associates "dancer" with a curvaceous and daintily feminine creature about their own age, generally found in a leotard and leg warmers, the sort of girl I'd invite to dinner, drinks, and them, on me for an evening or two, and who'd take well to wearing a lightweight flippy fabric that shows off the aforementioned panties when she twirls .

That said, I am neither dainty nor feminine, don't look good in white unless it's a t-shirt, prefer freedom to constriction and leave modesty to the other guy, and it will be a cold day in hell before I wear a leotard .

Yep, I'm a guy .

I'm also a guy who's honestly considering learning to dance the fling and sword dance again (did it when I was a kid...I stopped as soon as I realized that "dance" generally equated to "being a girl", which was at a pretty young age...no exposure to history of Highland dance, nor men who danced the Fling etc. as men, and I later learned Swing and a good bit of breaking instead). The 1st Battalion Scots Guards made an impression, I guess.

So...if you were gonna make an 8yd/16oz kilt for a guy who'd be dancing as well as pelting through the underbrush and wearing it in the occasional hailstorm on the side of a mountain (yep)...would you change anything specific to dancing in the kilt, and why? The SOHDA dress code is complete as to presentation but not as concerns construction nor intent. Weight, I'm not concerned with...tho heat might be a different story...?

Sincere thanks,
Sean

[Barb T]

If you go to any Highland Games, you'll see that 95% of Highland dancers (maybe more) are girls (and I mean girls, not women). 6-16 sort of age range. So that's why I assumed female.

Male dancers wear both dress and dark tartans if they compete as dancers, but most wear 11-13 oz tartan for exactly the same reason - too heavy and hot to leap around in a 16 oz kilt (and the weight of the back of the kilt flying can throw off a spin).

[wildrover]

If you go to any Highland Games, you'll see that 95% of Highland dancers (maybe more) are girls (and I mean girls, not women). 6-16 sort of age range. So that's why I assumed female.

Aha ...that explains what I've seen. I just figured the adults and the guys were later in the day, and never stuck around for more than a couple minutes since I've mostly just seen little kids doing it, outside of YouTube. Bummer then, that the guys with the Scots Guards are such an exception.

Male dancers wear both dress and dark tartans if they compete as dancers, but most wear 11-13 oz tartan for exactly the same reason - too heavy and hot to leap around in a 16 oz kilt (and the weight of the back of the kilt flying can throw off a spin).

Got it...so if I get a lighter weight kilt for summer, it'll suffice if I decide to start Highland dancing again .

Tho I'll admit, wearing a kilt in an otherwise p@ntsed culture is one thing, but it'll take a lot of heavy thinking as to whether or not I'd be comfortable in that environment ...and I imagine an adult male could be a bit of a quandary for an instructor who's used to working with little girls, if my experience in the dance department in college is any indicator...and those were college girls. If you're a guy in America, where the heck do you go, to learn this stuff?

Anyhow, thanks for the advice Barb!

-Sean

[Riverkilt]

My first hand sewn kilt was in a Lochcarron 10/11 ounce weight but that was the only weight wool that was available from the mills for that tartan. My kiltmaker assured me it would still work as a regular kilt.... And it has....in many venues for many years.

Ron

[Pleater]

Another cultural difference to add to all the others - here in Britain it is not considered all that unusual for men to dance.

In my day Scottish country dancing was taught at school, though I think it is out of fashion now.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[McMurdo]

WildRover
There are many of us on the forum who do Scottish Country Dancing perhaps that is something you could look into instead. I know that my own group is always looking for more men to join.