Are Septs authenticity in question by many these days?

[rgouette]

Fairly new to the world of things Scot..
My grandmums maiden name was NOBLE...ala sept of Mackintosh.

I tend to want to dig below the surface when I take an interest in a thing, and so in my looking into how some septs became associated with their respective clans, I ran across this tidbit:

Sir Thomas Innes of Learney, GCVO WS (1893-1971) Lord Lyon
King of Arms, 1945-1969, after being Carrick Pursuivant and
Albany Herald in the 1930s, makes mention in the book, Clan Septs
and Regiments of the Scottish Highlands, 1952, co-authored by
Frank Adam that;
'Septs must be regarded as a rather wonderful effort of
imagination,' and 'The very word "sept" is delusive and no
serious attention can now be attached to Skene's theories
about septs.'

Are there any resources out there that explain in any degree of detail, how the various septs came to be associated with the major clans?

Kind thanks,
~Rich

[BlackHills_Highlander]

Electric Scotland has some good information you can look through. Here is one page: https://electricscotland.com/webclan...lies_septs.htm

[Jock Scot]

Fairly new to the world of things Scot..
My grandmums maiden name was NOBLE...ala sept of Mackintosh.

I tend to want to dig below the surface when I take an interest in a thing, and so in my looking into how some septs became associated with their respective clans, I ran across this tidbit:

Sir Thomas Innes of Learney, GCVO WS (1893-1971) Lord Lyon
King of Arms, 1945-1969, after being Carrick Pursuivant and
Albany Herald in the 1930s, makes mention in the book, Clan Septs
and Regiments of the Scottish Highlands, 1952, co-authored by
Frank Adam that;
'Septs must be regarded as a rather wonderful effort of
imagination,' and 'The very word "sept" is delusive and no
serious attention can now be attached to Skene's theories
about septs.'

Are there any resources out there that explain in any degree of detail, how the various septs came to be associated with the major clans?

Kind thanks,
~Rich

I tend to go with Sir Thomas and I doubt that many over here give this Sept idea much consideration, or credence.

[Troglodyte]

Sept of a clan is something that few here in Scotland ever consider, and the majority of native Scots seem indifferent to the clans and their histories and traditions.

It should be remembered that all Scots (about 5,500,000 is the current population) are Scottish, and a glance at the names listed in a telephone directory will give an indication of how many have Highland clan ancestry. There is nothing unusual or distinctive about it.

Great caution needs to be given to a name being declared a sept or, indeed, a clan - the Border name Young is a good example, which in recent years has gone from being a name that anciently followed the old Douglas lords, to being a sept in some accounts, and now a formally-recognised clan with its own tartan, crest and all the usual trappings. This has happened in the space of about 30 years.

Associations of the name Noble is not restricted to one clan, as it can be found connected in various ways to other clans across the country. The name Souter is another example, as it is given as a sept of some clans, but souters (shoemakers) were to be found plying their trade all across the country, not among just one clan.

However, if you find you have family links with a particular clan, you are free to use this association to become a recognised clansman - clan associations seem to be open to all of the name, the recognised septs, and those who have a genuine interest in the clan, its traditions and history.

In all the years I have been involved with my own clan activites and events, as well as those of other clans, I have never been asked if I am 'clan' or 'sept' or even a 'follower', let alone provide 'documentary evidence'. Most clans are happy to take new members, so as long as you behave as the right sort and enter into the spirit of the thing, you will have a happy and enjoyable time.

[rgouette]

Sept of a clan is something that few here in Scotland ever consider, and the majority of native Scots seem indifferent to the clans and their histories and traditions........
Most clans are happy to take new members, so as long as you behave as the right sort and enter into the spirit of the thing, you will have a happy and enjoyable time.

Fair enough.. thanks for the perspective.

~R

[Canadian Vet]

If your family is a known sept, I suppose that it may give you some guidance as to what tartan you may choose to wear but far better guidance is to wear what you like the looks of (skipping the proscribed patterns).
Nobody is policing it and the Great Pipe Major in the sky is very forgiving.