speakin of burns

[Nick the DSM]

speakin of burns- what the difference between burns and brynes? is it differnet family or spelling? cant find it on wiki.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Byrnes is often Irish, as in O'Byrne--

[Larry124]

I’ve read that Byrnes is from O’Broin and Bran.

“First found in Leinster, where they were descended from Bran, the King of Leinster who died in 1052. He was descended from Cathair Mor King of Leinster, who was also Monarch of all Ireland about 200 A.D.”
-- HouseOfNames.com Archives
Or,
“Bran Fendigaid (the Blessed) was the son of the Sea God, Llyr and, maternally, the grandson of Belenos, the Sun God. His name means Raven, and this bird was his symbol. In Celtic mythology, Bran appears as a semi-humanized giant residing at Castell Dinas Bran, the later home of the later Kings of Powys. Though Bran himself was supposed to have been an early King of the Silures tribe of Gwent. There appears to be no archaeological evidence for his worship though perhaps the castle mount was once sacred to him. Geoffrey of Monmouth transformed him into an early British King named Brennius, though his story probably relates to King Bran Hen of Bryneich...” (Search the first few words and get a longer story.)
-- Britannia.com


And that Burns is from a feature name – A stream, brook, beck, burn, creek, crick, kill, lick, rill, syke, bayou, rivulet, or run is a body of water with a current, confined within a bed and banks.

[slohairt]

Indeed, Byrnes (also Byrne, Birne, O'Birne, and occasionally Burns and Byron) are Anglicisations of Ó Broin, meaning descendant of Bran, a personal name meaning raven.

Burns (also Burness), the Scottish name, is topographical and derived from the Anglo-Saxon term for stream. The element bourne found in many English surnames and place names is of the same origin.

[Ruanaidh]

After many years of genealogical research I have come to the conclusion the the major influence on the spelling of names is dependant on the spelling ability of the official writing the document.

[BoldHighlander]

After many years of genealogical research I have come to the conclusion the the major influence on the spelling of names is dependant on the spelling ability of the official writing the document.

Indeed that's true. Though I have one that perplexes me.

My 6th great-grandfather (John Scoby) came over the water in 1740. We know that at that point his name was spelled "SCOBY". A number of years later a census listed him as "SCOBEE".
A few more years later (and here is where I'm perplexed) another census (something to do with taxes, my memory is a bit fuzzy, just got off work) had him listed as "SCOBIE" and his three sons as "SCOBEE"(?!?) ...

Now I can understand different officials spelling it differently, but on the same form by the same hand?? I can't explain that one

(The family name's been Scobee ever since by the way.)

[gilmore]

Until the advent of dictionaries in the early 1800's there was no such thing as correct spelling. Everyone spelled words as they sounded to them, and had their own rules of spelling.

I have a document from the 1750's that was indexed under one spelling, the clerk wrote my ancestor's name in the body of the document in a second way, but copied his signature in a 3rd way, they way he himself spelled it.

In doing geneaology, we have to search for alternative spellings, some of them quite different.

[Nick the DSM]

well, i was told that byrnes of my family could of been from scotland and i thought it could be a variation of burns.

also i read an irish and scottish family name book, and byrnes and burns were the same but different spelling.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

well, i was told that byrnes of my family could of been from scotland and i thought it could be a variation of burns.

also i read an irish and scottish family name book, and byrnes and burns were the same but different spelling.

Well, what you were told could very well be true. Spelling, as we know it, is very much a 19th century invention. People in those days often opted for a more distinctive, or romantic, spelling of their name. There was also a lot of to-ing and fro-ing between Ireland and Scotland so it wouldn't be uncommon to find Irish surnames in Scotland.

When I lived in Los Angeles I met any number of Burns/Byrnes who were Jewish and had dropped the "-stein" from their name. I once had a friend to dinner who mentioned that his Mother's father had founded MacBern meat packing in Los Angeles. My mother, a McBain, asked what part of Scotland the MacBern's were from. "Actually," came the reply, "my grandfather's name is Max Bernbaum."

[sharpdressedscot]

I guess people like that "Mac-" in their names, who wouldn't